*Strangelv sings "Domo Arigato, Mr. TBottu..."
kb9vqfThat's mine
kb9vqfHe's OK :)
Strangelv"Process keeps dying?
kb9vqfI'm still setting it up
kb9vqfGetting the logging going and such
*kb9vqf notes the configuration file format isn't very friendly
StrangelvNoticed that the PID keeps incrimenting
kb9vqfCtrl+C will do that ;-)
kb9vqfHe won't do anything here for a while
StrangelvThere's no equivalent for a talk page with FOSWiki, is there?
kb9vqfI don't know, sorry
kb9vqfI kind of like FOSWiki but I think I may be the only one here who does :-(
*Strangelv has also discovered that the markup isn't whath's throwing him -- it's that it saves not the markup but an html version of it, then converts the html back to markup, losing important things along the way
Strangelv"What are its strong points?
kb9vqfHang on
StrangelvI've tried to use worse.  It may actualyl be the second best wiki available, from my admittedly limited and dated experience
kb9vqfScroll down to Features
kb9vqfThe WYSIWYG editor is one
kb9vqfExtensibility is another
kb9vqfI also seem to have stopped Wiki spam cold :)
kb9vqfAnd you can't beat the license
Pikinot many people use FOSwiki, probably not enough incentive to make bots for it
*kb9vqf wonders where tbottu is dumping his log files
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*Strangelv : http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Artwork/LogoBrainstorm
StrangelvWhat are some of the worst?
kb9vqfI like the one on the bottom :)
kb9vqfBy the way, TQt stands for "Trinity Qt", not "Tiny Qt" ;-)
kb9vqfIt's anything BUT tiny
kb9vqfQt4 should be called "Tiny Qt"
kb9vqfSeeing as it's missing so many features
Strangelv"It's open for confusion, and if we call it Trinity Qt it might discourage other developers from believing it would have anything to do with their needs
kb9vqfI suppose
kb9vqfWell, it's not released yet
kb9vqfIt can always be renamed
kb9vqfThe Qt4 variant that is
Pikihow about sqt: superior qt interface
kb9vqfSounds like squid :-{
StrangelvSQt... we could use a radical for a logo. 8)
Strangelv"Squid... a radical in a naval uniform?
kb9vqfNice and professional, that!
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Pikiand perhaps at some point program it with some FAQs about TDE and TQt
kb9vqfIt does have info abilities
StrangelvRadKade1 had a bot in gameslink #unreal that kept a list of amusing quotes and would play one back at random.  ...it was a bit less business than this one...
kb9vqfHeh :)
Pikiso we can just do "!tqt" and have it display a list of it's FAQs
*kb9vqf plays some ut2004 now and then
kb9vqfPiki: yes
Pikii don't paly games much, occasional pacman or super mario, but nothing fancy or overly-violent, i prefer mild
kb9vqfSupertux anyone ?
*kb9vqf doesn't play often either
kb9vqfBut every now and then can be amusing
Pikii've played supertux, amusing how they've copied over the super mario conepts so closely
*kb9vqf has never played super mario
Strangelv'"I've only seen it.  I never ad aty console system,s just my father's Aple ][ plus
kb9vqftbottu: what is tqt?
tbottukb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'tqt' is.
kb9vqfHe's kind of dumb right now
kb9vqftbottu: what is tqt?
tbottukb9vqf: I have heard that tqt is the Trinity Qt Interface
Pikikb9vqf: it's one of the all time classics, you're not a gaming fan until you've played super mario, sonic, zelda, and the old arcade classics ;-)
kb9vqfNope, not a gaming fan here
kb9vqfThough I do like the older arcade games
kb9vqfBosconian, etc.
Pikibosconian? too young to remember that one ;-)
StrangelvI must admit that even when it first came out I was a littly unnerved that I was fighting an enemy force that lacked projectile technology
StrangelvSinistar was noticelbly less impossible in the arcades than on MAME
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Strangelvtbottu: what is the capital of assyria?
tbottuStrangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'the capital of assyria' is.
Strangelvtbottu: Does the wiki have the DebianRepositoryPlugin?
tbottuStrangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Does the wiki have the DebianRepositoryPlugin' might be.
kb9vqfHe knows nothing right now
kb9vqfYou can give tbottu information like this: tbottu: The capital of Assyria is Assur
kb9vqftbottu: The capital of Assyria is Assur
tbottukb9vqf: ok
kb9vqftbottu: what is the capital of assyria?
tbottukb9vqf: Well, The capital of Assyria is Assur
Strangelv"Actualyl, tehre's moer than one answer.  Nineveh, IIRC, was the final capital
*kb9vqf wonders if there is a master info bot somewhere
StrangelvMike likes my three gears graphic but is wondering how to make it recognizabel at 16x16px
kb9vqfGood question
*Strangelv summons teh Master Mold
StrangelvMy guess is to make the three colors sufficientyl distinct
Strangelv"The colors are placeholders.  I'm thinking in terms of grabing them from the KDE 3 branding
StrangelvIt might also make sense to change the positions of the gears
Strangelv"Thera re more ideas that I have badly sketched itn oraneg marke,r but I've not created vector graphics for them yet
*Strangelv needs to get up and go te the kitchen sometime
StrangelvActually ,looking at the page, there's really only one more I realyl want to spend tim making.
StrangelvIt's for the built on a solid foundation concept
StrangelvA wall with missing portions and whit epaint that amkes for a giant lowercase 't'
kb9vqfSounds good to replace my junky TQT logo ;-)
StrangelvAerl you the one who made teh interim TDE logo?
kb9vqfFrom the original KDE logo
StrangelvWhat source files did you have?
kb9vqfThe svg source
kb9vqfThat's it
Strangelv"That could definitely help.  Where is it located?
kb9vqfIt's in the kdelibs module IIRC
Strangelv"I could grab colors off of that if nothing else
kb9vqfIt opens fine in Inkscape
StrangelvAlso I was wondering about the location of the powered on graphics
kb9vqfWhere are they used in the Trinity UI?
Strangelvduring startup
kb9vqfThose are usually distro-specific
kb9vqfThe Ubuntu ones I made from the Ubuntu KDE logo
StrangelvIt might be something to tinker on iven if it's only for Tubuntu
kb9vqfWhy not
kb9vqfI don't remember offhand where those files are
kb9vqfProbably in the kubuntu splash package
kb9vqffor plymouth
kb9vqfBe warned the color palette is very limited during startup
Strangelvis the color palette part of teh image or is trial and error required?
kb9vqfSet it to 8 bit and you should be OK
kb9vqfIt varies from system to system
kb9vqfIntel provides a full 32-bit palette
kb9vqfnVidia provides the lousy 8-bit one
kb9vqfAnd there's a whole range in between
StrangelvWill any 8 bit pallet work or is there a specific one?  Have an equivalent of the 256 color safe palette that went out the windowm when only 22 of them, mostly bright greens, worked with 16 bit too?
kb9vqfThe 256 color one
kb9vqfThat's the safest
*Strangelv grew up with 8 bits for 6 colors on 7 pixels. He can adjust
*kb9vqf grew up on a very similar system
StrangelvWhich one?
kb9vqfAn old 486 SX
kb9vqfDOS FTW
StrangelvOkay, that's WAAY ahead of what I grew up on
kb9vqfWhat's yours
kb9vqfBTW it was new at the time :)
StrangelvWhen I was 11 my father spent enough money to buy a car on a top end Apple ][ plus
kb9vqfNice machine though
Strangelv48 xB RAM, floating point BASIC, 16 sectored disk operating system and actual floppy driwes
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kb9vqfHey, it works!
kb9vqfWhat bout Bug 67?
tbottuBug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=67 cri, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESO WORKSFORME, Errors while installing kde 3.5
*Strangelv claps
*kb9vqf will get the logs published on the Trinity website...eventually.....
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StrangelvBug 365?
kb9vqftbottu: what is TDE?
tbottuBug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=365 blo, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, GPG Key and Repositories not Accessible
tbottukb9vqf: Well, TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment
kb9vqfHe's running for good now
kb9vqfNo more cycling needed AFAIK
*Strangelv claps
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-04T07:32:21Z">+o tbottu </mode>
kb9vqfDoesn't work that way
kb9vqfFrom what I can tell queries have to be directed at tbottu
kb9vqftbottu: What is assyria?
tbottukb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'assyria' is.
Strangelv"By bug question wasn't but still worked
kb9vqfBugs are treated differently
kb9vqfThis might not be the best info module
kb9vqfI can see if there is another
kb9vqfAlso, /msg tbottu help is useful
kb9vqftbottu: TDE?
tbottukb9vqf: TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment
Strangelvtbottu, what is TDE?
tbottuStrangelv: I have heard that TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment
kb9vqftbottu: factoid?
tbottukb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'factoid' might be.
kb9vqftbottu: What is a factoid?
tbottukb9vqf: A factoid is some information about a topic.  A full list of factoid commands is available from /msg tbottu help infobot
Strangelvtbottu, what's 5+3?
tbottuStrangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what '5+3' might be.
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-04T07:39:06Z">+o kb9vqf </mode>
kb9vqftbottu: translate from en to de Hello
tbottukb9vqf: Request timed out more than 50 times
kb9vqftbottu: translate using google from en to de Hello
tbottukb9vqf: Noooo... That's not the right syntax at all! Try something like 'translate [using (Yahoo|Babelfish|Google)] [from (pt|it|zh|es|ru|nl|ar|en|zh-CN|fr|de|ja|zt|el)] [to (pt|it|zh|es|ru|nl|ar|en|zh-CN|fr|de|ja|zt|el)] sentence'
kb9vqftbottu: translate using Google from en to de Hello
tbottukb9vqf: Language "English" is not available
kb9vqftbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to de Hello
tbottukb9vqf:  Hallo
kb9vqftbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to ru Hello
tbottukb9vqf:  !
Pikinow i feel like an idiot: kept typing in the name of a file as a part of a command, couldn't find the file, but ls showed it as there. of course, i was was using a "-" in the file name, but i should have been using _ instead lol
Pikihmm, apparently ru doesn't have a word for hello lol
StrangelvIs IRC limited to 7 bit ASCII?
kb9vqfI think the Babelfish CPAN modules is a bit out of date
kb9vqfThere are Russian conversations on here now and then
Strangelv"I remember now.  Doh.
kb9vqfHence my interest in the translation feature ;-)
Pikiwe get a lot of foreign languages over at ark, most common is de
Pikistrangely enough, we used to get a lot of spam in russion on our forum
Strangelvtbottu: translate using Google from en to es The dashed lines mark the boundaries of the quadtree squares, and indicate that certain half-tiles can be recombined to form three more tiles, including one in which a square is divided into 26 triangles, all having angles of at most 80 degrees.
tbottuStrangelv: Language "English" is not available
kb9vqfThe conversations in Russian here are actually the most productive :)
Pikiand the occassional username in the greek alphabet
kb9vqftbottu: translate using Google from es to de The dashed lines
tbottukb9vqf: Language "Spanish" is not available
kb9vqfSeems quite broken
kb9vqftbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to es The dashed lines mark the boundaries of the quadtree squares, and indicate that certain half-tiles can be recombined to form three more tiles, including one in which a square is divided into 26 triangles, all having angles of at most 80 degrees.
tbottukb9vqf:  Las l&#65533;neas discontinuas marcan los l&#65533;mites de los cuadrados del quadtree, e indican que ciertos mitad-azulejos se pueden recombinar para formar tres m&#65533;s azulejos, incluyendo uno en el cual un cuadrado se divida en 26 tri&#65533;ngulos, todo que
tbottutiene &#65533;ngulos a lo m&#65533;s de 80 grados.
StrangelvThat looks more successful
kb9vqfMore or less
kb9vqfI guess use Yahoo for now
kb9vqftbottu: translate using Yahoo from en to de The dashed lines mark the boundaries of the quadtree squares, and indicate that certain half-tiles can be recombined to form three more tiles, including one in which a square is divided into 26 triangles, all having angles of at most 80 degrees.
tbottukb9vqf:  Die ausgestrichenen Linien markieren die Grenzen der quadtree Quadrate und zeigen, dass bestimmte H&#65533;lftefliesen wiederverbunden werden k&#65533;nnen, um drei weitere Fliesen zu bilden, einschlie&#65533;lich, in der eine ein Quadrat in 26 Dreiecke
tbottuunterteilt wird, alle an, die Winkel von h&#65533;chstens 80 Grad hat.
kb9vqfNow that I can try to read :)
kb9vqfEnough fun with the bot for now
kb9vqfBack to our regularly scheduled on-topic programming :)
*kb9vqf notes you can open a chat with the bot if you like
Strangelvtbottu: translate using Google from ru to en &#1087;&#1077;&#1088;&#1077;&#1074;&#1086;&#1076; &#1086;&#1096;&#1080;&#1073;&#1082;&#1072; &#1089;&#1077;&#1088;&#1074;&#1077;&#1088;&#1072;
tbottuStrangelv: Language "Russian" is not available
StrangelvWhat's the topic again?
kb9vqfWhy TDE of course :)
*Strangelv was pondering something more specificg
kb9vqfI don't think the bits about the trees, squares, and angles have much to do with TDE though.....
Strangelv"well looking for.  I don't have a god on eto offer at the moment unless it's to whine about the roadmap
Strangelv"it's what I could find that was technical first for testing purposes
kb9vqfI kind of figured
kb9vqfThat's what the person-to-bot chats are for
kb9vqfBut I don't mind
kb9vqftoo much
StrangelvWhat sorts of things would we need to have in place to call a nw version 3.6.00?
kb9vqfI'd like it converted to TQt
Strangelvfully working Qt4 support I presume
kb9vqfAt least at alpha stage
kb9vqfThe Trinity code itself should be nearly finalized
kb9vqfAll bugs added during TQt-porting should be fixed
Strangelvfinalized in what sense?
kb9vqfThe bit about the bugs
*kb9vqf was unclear, sorry
StrangelvAlways remember: there will always be open trouble tickets
kb9vqfIt should run correctly under Qt3 and compile under Qt4
kb9vqfOf course
Strangelv"Stomping out the show-stoppers is important
kb9vqfI just mean bugs that were added as a result of the TQt port
kb9vqfAnd show stoppers
Strangelv"So you're thinking of modest changes?
Strangelva new grlaphical scheme would be good to have to go along with it
kb9vqfA new theme?
kb9vqfI suppose
Strangelvhaven't figuerd out where the GUI widget graphics are located
Strangelv"New default desktop, but I hope to have one of those before 3.5.13
kb9vqfMuch of them are painted though
kb9vqfI change the wallpaper every release :)
kb9vqfStyles are significantly harder
Strangelvroot@Doomsday:/home/strangelv# locate -i kdelibs
*Strangelv doesn't find much
kb9vqfQt3 doesn't really have GUI pixmaps
kb9vqfMost GUI elements are painted on via C++ style code
tbottuc++ is evil
kb9vqfWhere'd that come from??!??
*Strangelv withholds judgement on C++
Strangelv"I'w assuming it's a default
kb9vqf"I never knew anything about 'C++' in the first place!"
Pikinow i'm wandering about php and html ;-)
StrangelvThere was a gimmick software program that seemed nice until you found out one of its defaults prevented Winodws from starting -- it seemed to assume everyone was mostly using DOS
StrangelvPython is enourmously more intuitive than C++.  For that matter, so is C...
*kb9vqf wonders if that was the Greeting module
kb9vqfIt might have been randomly spewing things
Strangelvtbottu, what is C++
tbottuStrangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'C++' is.
Strangelvlooks like the bot has made itself the topic again
kb9vqfDarned attention grabber
kb9vqfBack to styles
kb9vqfThe only pixmaps are for icons
kb9vqfThose are in either kdelibs or kdebase
kb9vqfI forget which
Strangelvroot@Doomsday:/home/strangelv# locate .svgz | grep -i kde | grep -v kde4 | grep -v icons
*Strangelv gets a short list of wallpapers
kb9vqfnot .svgz
kb9vqfMost pixmaps in Trinity are .png
kb9vqftbottu, what is C++
tbottukb9vqf: Maybe C++ is wonderful, surpassed only by C
kb9vqfMuch better
*Strangelv gets a haystack
Strangelvfinding no pngs in kdebase
Strangelvbut thath's with locate, and it could have been moved somewhere completely different
kb9vqfkdelibs maybe
*kb9vqf is obviously not sure
StrangelvI can't fault you for having trouble remembering given how much trouble I have with memory
kb9vqfAnd Trinity is massive ;-)
*kb9vqf needs to get some sleep
StrangelvAnd it just dawned on me that /opt/kde3 is the last place I'm going to find the starup graphics
Strangelvtype at youlater?
kb9vqftbottu, what is tbottu
tbottukb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'tbottu' is.
kb9vqftbottu, what is tbottu
tbottukb9vqf: Oh, I know this one! tbottu is your benevolent host and logging droid, capable of giving helpful misinformation, bug status messages, and translations via Yahoo
*Strangelv dumps the geteral knowledge base into tbottu and fills up Timothy's HD
kb9vqfBe my guest
kb9vqfSee how fast you run into my logbot jail ;-)
kb9vqfgn all
Pikitbottu: what is your uptime?
tbottuPiki: Sorry, I've no idea what 'your uptime' is.
Pikiwow, bots are amusing when they aren't programmed ;-)
Strangelvtbottu, what should I bug you about 365 days a year?
tbottuStrangelv: Sorry, I've no idea what 'what should I bug you about 365 days a year' might be.
*Strangelv snaps his fingers
StrangelvThere's an Eliza style chat bot that may come standard with LambdaMOO
Strangelv"It gets irritating in short order, except for a modified version that someone made with two of them being insecure, argumentive cats
StrangelvThat just gets owverwhelming as they flood the page arguing with each other
StrangelvIt does eventually get repetitious as well
Pikitbottu: what is TDE?
tbottuPiki: hmm... I think TDE is the Trinity Desktop Environment
Pikii don't think it should think... it should just know... that thinking part might scare people ;-)
StrangelvIf it calls you Dave or Dr Forbin it's time to run away
*Strangelv tries to stand up again. It may be half an hour or more before he returns whn he succeeds
StrangelvDave -- 2001
StrangelvDr Forbin -- can't remember teh name of the movie.  Colussus was teh computer, and it decided to take over as world dictator
*Strangelv "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." -- HAL 9000
Pikinow you've completely lost me
StrangelvYou need to watch 2001: A Space Oddessey sometime
*Strangelv tries to stand up befoer he gives any more spoilers
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*Strangelv waits for the response
TokRatbottu: what are you?
Strangelv"Has it locked up?
Strangelvbug 365
tbottuBug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=365 blo, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, GPG Key and Repositories not Accessible
TokRabug 0
Strangelv"might not be one of thoes in the database
Strangelv"I actualy looked at the list ot be sure.  365 is in bold with red text
Strangelvbug 1
tbottuBug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=1 nor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Landscape PDF printed as portrait (and truncated)
StrangelvWonder if there's any missinsg in sequence
*TokRa is afraid of the word "Aero" :D
*Strangelv gives Amarok far fewer than four stars
StrangelvUnity looks like it would look good on a 3" telephone screen
StrangelvIt might drive me insane on my 23" workstation screen
*Strangelv 's workstation screen is not at tthe same level as the rest of his workstation. he needs to findan upgrade one of these months.
TokRaBTW, my netbook' http://u.inga.lv/m10.png and workstation http://u.inga.lv/m9.png
StrangelvI can't makes as useful a shot.  When my left side task bar is deployed it covers my desktop icons
*Strangelv tries
TokRaNot bad at all, but fonts are a little oversized
StrangelvI sometimes viem my screen from a bit further away than most people
StrangelvAlso, my eyes aren't as god as they used to be
TokRaOh, sorry
StrangelvI remember how fun it was no read tiny small print when I was 12 years old...
Strangelv"That's okay, they'll get plenty worse over the next few decades I'm sure
*TokRa sometimes wears glasses too
StrangelvMostly it's the distance I am from my screen
*Strangelv first got bifocals when he was 21. He should have gotten them 5-10 years earlier.
*TokRa sits about a half meter from screen
Strangelv:; is presentyl about one meter from his screen.
TokRamy vision is -1.75 to -2.00, according to the optometrist
Strangelv: don't remember what mine are and my most recent Rx is long misplaced.  After getting bifocals I no longer needed new glasses every year
StrangelvMy current pair is moer than 10 years old -- unthinkable 20 years ago
TokRaMay I ask about the meaning of "lv" in your nickname?
StrangelvIn 1993 at a telefundraising job I got pegged as Dr Strangelove by a coworker for my less than optimistic geopolitical projections
TokRai see
StrangelvWhen I first ended up regularly on IRC it was when there was still a limit to how many characters your name could be
StrangelvI've also interacted with too many real PhDs to claim being a 'Dr' when I just hawvea measely bachelor's
*Strangelv has served on boards of directors and executive committeees with people with doctorates
TokRasounds great
StrangelvSo what do you get your hands into?
TokRaYou mean, my occupation?
StrangelvThat could work
*Strangelv heads a tiny computer game company you've never heard of unless you were on teh Quake I gaming scene in 1997, in which case you may have merely forgotten it.
*TokRa works as PHP / MySQL programmer at http://insbergs.lv for 5 years yet and holds her little own hosting provider business at http://valsts.lv
*Strangelv claps
TokRaI study law too in order to get my bachelor degree
StrangelvIs than Santa or Det Moroz with the parachute?
TokRaearlier I tried to study french philology at the university, but I have realized the philology and the litterature give no passion to me
*TokRa is hitech and it addicted
TokRayes, indeed :)
StrangelvI had academic and research goals, but the fell by the side in 1997 to work on The Project That Will Make Us All Rich that blew up in our faces in January 1998
TokRathe winter version of our coprorate site
*Strangelv judges by teh alphabet that it's probably not Det Moroz
TokRaIt is &#1044;&#1077;&#1076; &#1052;&#1086;&#1088;&#1086;&#1076; (Ded Moroz)
TokRaDed (spelled like "dad") means old man / grandfather
StrangelvAokay, I got the transliteration wrong...
TokRaMoroz means "the cold"
*Strangelv may also be correctly remembering an incorrect transliteration
Strangelv"Father frost
TokRaThe "Dead Moroz" spelling might be encountered too, by kidding :P
StrangelvWhom I believe is supposed to have white gloves with three fingers on each hand, and underneath the red coat iz wearing pure while.  also if that's Ded Moroz, where's the ice maiden?
StrangelvI'sn't Ded Moroz supposed to have a female counterpart, teh ice maiden?
TokRayes, she's called &#1057;&#1085;&#1077;&#1075;&#1091;&#1088;&#1086;&#1095;&#1082;&#1072; (Snegurochka)
TokRaAccording to the slavic (especially russian) folklore
TokRaShe still has  fingers on each hand :)
TokRa She still has 5 fingers on each hand :)
Strangelv"So what are you working on for TDE?
*Strangelv in trying to wokr out what artwokr needs to be done when
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TokRaStrangelv: I am not working now. Earlier, I hosted the Trinity's ISO images on my servers: http://trinity.lv
TokRaThen, after Timothy had got help from University of Idaho, I continued to host them on my own, just to keep the mirroring idea
Strangelv"Thank you
*Strangelv , when given a choice of servers, usually picks one in a part of the world where it's in the wee hours of the morning, wherever in the world that may be
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*TokRa offered the mirroring option about 2 years ago when I needed to get the actual distro with KDE3 and apt.pearsoncomputing.net was down due to the lightning
*TokRa has contacted kb9vqf and offered help
*TokRa acually is mentioned at http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/contributors/
*Strangelv claps
TokRaMy global policy is to give, not only to get
TokRaWhen I have helped myself, I usually start considering helping the others
*Strangelv has spent a bit of time giving content to wikis; does that count?
Strangelv"Admittedly, I was involved with most of them coming into existence
StrangelvThen there's teh angle of, to quote from Babylone 5
Strangelv::: "Who would believe it!  The great and powerful Londo Molari got his job becaues NO ONE ELSE WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO TAKE IT!!"
TokRaAnd since I am not familiar with C and system level programming, I cannot unfortunately help the project in other ways.
Strangelv"Need/less to say I'm enormously grateful for Timothy Pearson being in charge of this project
*Space_Man has joined #trinity-desktop
*TokRa too
Strangelv"I've neer learned teh packaging system, so doing the packages would have required me to stop working on a great many things
*Strangelv has prenty of expecie\rience in using it, even with broken packages; does that count? There were times when he was running Libranet and Demian Sid that Sid really _was_ unstable
*TokRa guesses that any king of help counts
Strangelv"Most of what I know about C++ is out of date.  There were a lot of changes with C++98 and I don't know any of those changes
StrangelvMostly I'm here to crank out artwork
StrangelvAt least as soon as I can find out _what_ to crank out...
StrangelvTrying to document these things here: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Artwork/Files
*Strangelv : http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Artwork/ArtworkFiles
Strangelvthe first file is a doppelgaenger of some sort.
*Strangelv wonders if there's a awy to turn a page into a redirect in FOSWiki
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toxic_devilhi all
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toxic_devilsamelian: hi
MutantTurkeyhi toxic_devil
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: hi
MutantTurkeycmake not configuring right?
MutantTurkeyline 29: CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:24 (tde_add_executable) line 30: Unknown CMake command "tde_add"executable"
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: yes
MutantTurkeystrange. I do not know
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: It's very strange
samelianactually is not so strange
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1101;&#1090;&#1086; &#1084;&#1086;&#1078;&#1085;&#1086; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082; &#1090;&#1086; &#1088;&#1077;&#1096;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100;?
samelianseems that you don't run cmake on root of kdelibs directory
sameliankdebase, sorry
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toxic_devil&#1101;&#1090;&#1086; &#1086;&#1095;&#1077;&#1085;&#1100; &#1087;&#1083;&#1086;&#1093;&#1072;&#1103; &#1080;&#1076;&#1077;&#1103;
sameliancheck my ebuild to see how to do it correctly
toxic_devil&#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1079;&#1085;&#1072;&#1095;&#1080;&#1090; brb?
TokRabe right back - &#1103; &#1089;&#1082;&#1086;&#1088;&#1086; &#1074;&#1077;&#1088;&#1085;&#1091;&#1089;&#1100;
toxic_devilTokRa: ;-P
MutantTurkeywhen using Cmake, I don't know how to set it to properly use QT3. $ cmake CMakeFiles.txt -D WITH_QT3:BOOL=ON doesn't seem to work
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toxic_devilMutantTurkey: how bad that you do not speak Russian, I understand what you write, but I find it difficult to write in English
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: hey
toxic_devilMutantTurkey:  cmake -DWITH_QT3=ON
toxic_devilor TRUE
MutantTurkeytoxic_devil: thank you
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: you use jabber?
MutantTurkeyyes. crazycal00@gmail.com
MutantTurkeygoogle talk works with jabber right?
samelianyes, gtalk using a kind of jabber protocol
MutantTurkeythought so.
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*TokRa just tested the new Ubuntu 11.04 Alpha2 with Unity DE
TokRaIt's awful
TokRaDesigned for mentally challenged users :(
kb9vqfSo Trinity looks more and more important with each Ubuntu release ;-)
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1089;&#1085;&#1086;&#1089;&#1080; ubuntu)))
TokRakb9vqf: indeed
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I don't know if its been discussed before. maybe register trinityde.org and setup an modern looking website
MutantTurkeyour current website (while i do like simplicity) just reminds people that 3.5 is outdated
kb9vqfI wouldn't mind help with the website :)
kb9vqfAny takers?
MutantTurkeyI will help you
*TokRa has registered trinity.lv about a year ago
kb9vqfWhat would be nice is to
MutantTurkeywe'd need a .org i think
kb9vqffix up the graphical style (CSS?)
kb9vqfSomething to get rid of the 1990s HTML look
kb9vqfWhile retaining the content
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: have you seen the archlinux website? very simple and still fast and modern
kb9vqfLooks noce to me
kb9vqfnice thatis
MutantTurkeyyes I think so
MutantTurkeythey've nicely intergrated their BBS, their bug tracker, User repos  (all different backends and engines) into one website
kb9vqfIf I give you access to the source HTML could you convert the website to a nicer layout?
kb9vqfThere is a beta site floating around that you can use as a test bed
kb9vqfDomain names are $20/yr
kb9vqfI wouldn't mind registering trinityde.org
kb9vqfBut we need a nicer looking website first :)
*kb9vqf does not "do" CSS, etc.
kb9vqfSo I would need some help there
MutantTurkeyi don't go css either
MutantTurkeyi do simple. i do fast. i do modern
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: domains are 10 a year
kb9vqfThanks :)
*kb9vqf was getting ripped off
MutantTurkeyat least i recall. havent dont it in a while
kb9vqfWell, it looks like $10 may be an introductory price
kb9vqfPersonally I haven't found long-term less than $20 or so
MutantTurkeyoh okay
kb9vqfIt's a nit, $10 isn't very much :)
kb9vqfFixing the website is more important
MutantTurkeybut $10 and a new website would be great
kb9vqfI don't like allowing FTP access....I wonder if rsync would work?
kb9vqfFor you to get access to the beta hosting directory that is
MutantTurkeyDont give me ftp access
kb9vqfDon't worry, I won't :)
*kb9vqf hates FTP
MutantTurkeyjust tar up the website and send it over
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kb9vqfOK, hang on
MutantTurkeysince i've only been around here for a few days i wouldn't trust myself either :p
kb9vqfObviously I can't send the Wiki and such, but I'll send over the main static page
kb9vqfpages, rather
MutantTurkeyalso, we need to either 1) get rid of the wiki or 2) make it useful.
MutantTurkeyalot of the stuff there could be on the regular site
kb9vqfIt's useful
MutantTurkeyalright, well expanding it is definitely a good idea (in the future)
kb9vqfIt's faster for me to work on the Wiki for most of the stuff there
kb9vqfYes :)
kb9vqfThe main pages should be for slowly changing content
kb9vqfLike they are now
MutantTurkeywell actally they don't need to be.
MutantTurkeyif you are having news updates and such
*kb9vqf doesn't have time for news updates :)
kb9vqfOf course if someone wants to do that for the project I don't mind
MutantTurkeyNews updates for releases and versions of programs, nothing else
kb9vqfOh, OK
kb9vqfThat's fine
MutantTurkeyjust so people know that we are active
kb9vqfA daily blog would be of of the question ;-)
kb9vqfAlso, the documentation pages are auto-generated, so they can't easily be changed
kb9vqfActually a lot of the pages are auto-generated
MutantTurkeywhich ones?
kb9vqfdocs, patches, mailing lists
MutantTurkeythat is all fine
MutantTurkeythey are all frames right?
kb9vqfThe Wiki and bugtracker are standalone ATM
MutantTurkeyokay thats easy then
kb9vqfRFEs are database driven
MutantTurkeydo you fancy how this looks?
kb9vqfI'd like it clean and light :)
kb9vqfBeyond that you can try whatever you want
MutantTurkeyclean light?
MutantTurkeyalso suckless.org
*kb9vqf doesn't like orange
MutantTurkeythat is the simple werc web framework.
MutantTurkeythe colors are all easy to change.
kb9vqfMaybe a bit hard to navigate?
MutantTurkeyI am just trying to think of ideas
kb9vqfI like the Arch homepage better
kb9vqfJust with different colors maybe
MutantTurkeyhttp://suckless.org is really easy to navigate
MutantTurkeyarchlinux is a good website. i will ask if they mind
kb9vqfWell, the only thing I would ask is if the links could be on the side of the pag
kb9vqfI have widescreen monitors and that way the links aren't taking up precious vertical spcae
MutantTurkeywell we differ there
*kb9vqf is not sure how many others have widescreen
MutantTurkeythere was some discussion of why horizontal are better
MutantTurkeythat is why suckless.org changed theirs. let me find the ML
kb9vqfFor example though I'm currently browsing the API, I have the main navigation tabs on the left and the Doxygen tabs on the top
kb9vqfNice and easy, and I can view most of the class functions at once
MutantTurkeyif i can recall. horizontal navigation is better because it takes up less total space
MutantTurkeynot to mention it scales easily for different size monitors
kb9vqfI don't suppose it is easily switched either
MutantTurkeynot sure.
kb9vqfBetween vertical and horizontal
kb9vqfWell, can you come up with a proof of concept to run by me and then the mailing list?
kb9vqfThat might be best
kb9vqfImpress me :)
MutantTurkeyI'll be honest, I haven't done anything in a very long time with web development
MutantTurkeystill have a few tricks up my sleeve :P
kb9vqfWhat if we had the primary navigation on the top
kb9vqfAnd the secondary navigation on the side?
kb9vqfMost users won't need secondary navigation
MutantTurkeyi think we need to just look at different websites we like. thats how i always do it
kb9vqfArch is really quite nice
kb9vqfI don't like the gray though
MutantTurkeyagain, alot of people use their layout
kb9vqfI'd take the recent updates and change it to the list of sources/distros currently available
kb9vqfAlso, the gray could be white
kb9vqfAnd the Trinity logo on the top left corner where the arch logo is
MutantTurkeywell the thing is, this whole website is php driven i assume
kb9vqfLight blue mouse over for the top navigation
kb9vqfTrinity blue otherwise
MutantTurkeythey are all feeds.
kb9vqfI see
MutantTurkeyRecent updates is an rss feed. News is an rss feed. Then there are minor links on the bottom right and major ones on the top
kb9vqfI have PHP and MySQL
MutantTurkeyI know nothing of PHP to be honest.
kb9vqfI wouldn't be opposed to RSS ATM
kb9vqfWell, maybe I'll look into it
MutantTurkeyyou can checkout their website on the svn
kb9vqfIs the Arch site open source?
MutantTurkeylemmie link you
kb9vqfOne step ahead of me I see :)
kb9vqfWe also need some nice screenshots of TDE
kb9vqfOn various platforms
MutantTurkeybecause i have no fucking idea what it looks like
MutantTurkeyor how the interface is
MutantTurkeyI am pretty much doing this all blindly until i get the packages running
MutantTurkeythanks :)
kb9vqfThose are with Ubuntu
*kb9vqf likes the Enterprise version
MutantTurkeyalso i'd suggest some like, suggested requirements for a PC. so people will know how it runs on theirs before installing
samelianMutantTurkey: if you need help for php, I know it pretty well
MutantTurkeysamelian: wonderful
toxic_devilYahooo!!! We paid to three)))
samelianalso, some jquery and css
kb9vqfOK, where should I send the html tarball?
MutantTurkeysetup a new subdomain if its no trouble
MutantTurkeylike trinity-testing.pearsoncomputing.net
*kb9vqf doesn't like it publically available
kb9vqfI have trinity-beta already
MutantTurkeyokay great
kb9vqfIt's OK, I can make it available for a few minutes ;-)
kb9vqfWhile you download it
MutantTurkeyokay just send me a link
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: enterprise vs desktop?
kb9vqfHang on, still trying to exclude the dynamic content
kb9vqfDesktop version is the old Ubuntu kiddie interface
MutantTurkeydude, heres the thing. with your screen shots. GET damn thumbnails
MutantTurkeyso it loads faster
kb9vqfI know
kb9vqfThe Website has been suffering badly
MutantTurkeydue to what?
kb9vqfLack of time mostly
kb9vqfWhat you see there was thrown up as fast as posssible
MutantTurkeyyou gotta remember, the first impression about trinity is the website
kb9vqfThat's why I welcome your guys' help :)
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kb9vqfMutantTurkey, samelian: http://trinity-beta.pearsoncomputing.net/123.tar.gz
kb9vqfThat should be all the non-dynamic content
samelianget it
MutantTurkeygot it great.
MutantTurkeyholy crap this is alot.
MutantTurkeywhy is it going so slow
kb9vqfThe website is under peak traffic right now
MutantTurkeyis that me downloading the iso?
kb9vqfYou and others maybe
MutantTurkeysorry :/
kb9vqfBut it should be going to the mirrors :-/
MutantTurkeyhere is the trick, BitTorrent.
MutantTurkeywe make a torrent with the Iso's instead
kb9vqfWhat's your rate on the ISO?
MutantTurkeymany distros do that. that way it doesn't bog the servers down
kb9vqfThat's the mirror
kb9vqfNot the main website
MutantTurkeyoh alright
MutantTurkeywell that is good
kb9vqfThis is just traffic to the Wiki, etc.
kb9vqfWe get a LOT of traffix
MutantTurkeythat much traffic?
kb9vqfSeems like it
kb9vqfEnough to swamp my uplink with basic pages (i.e. no files)
MutantTurkeydo you have a graph of it? or logs of visitors? i know apache may generate it
kb9vqfNope, not ATM
kb9vqfI've looked in the logs manually before
kb9vqfLots of visitors
MutantTurkeythere is a simple apache way to do it. I have a poor memory
kb9vqfYeah, I know
kb9vqfNo time though right now :)
MutantTurkeyyou very busy?
kb9vqfTQt is eating much more time than I would like
kb9vqfBut I hope that will stop soon
MutantTurkeyah, anything specific you are running into?
kb9vqfQt4 %^&amp;@^
kb9vqfMostly :)
kb9vqfThings like Qt4 eating events
kb9vqfThat took all day to trace
kb9vqfTurns out it does so on purpose
*kb9vqf really hates some of the Qt4 "design" decisions
MutantTurkeyyeah. i dislike qt4 alot
kb9vqfOn the plus side, through TQt, kdesktop and kicker run quite well
kb9vqfAlmost pixel perfect :)
kb9vqfkwin too
kb9vqfWorking on kate/kmultitabbarwidget now
kb9vqfThere's a screenshot of the desktop floating around, Xu_R has the link
kb9vqfSo, did you get the tarball yet?
kb9vqfThat will be missing one file I forgot about
MutantTurkeyI am confused. what file do you first open?
kb9vqfErr, wait
kb9vqfLet me check
MutantTurkeybecause i see index_main.html but that doesn't have the sidebar fram
kb9vqfBut I didn't include it accidentally
kb9vqfHang on
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: ^^ rename that to index.php
kb9vqfAlso there is a missing folder named /files
kb9vqfAnd you need to place this in that folder: http://trinity-beta.pearsoncomputing.net/files/index.html
kb9vqfRename to links_main.php
kb9vqfThat should be it
*kb9vqf excluded all PHP files
kb9vqfDid you get the files OK?
MutantTurkeyokay sorry
MutantTurkeyhad to watch my little sister for a minute
kb9vqfThat's fine
kb9vqfI'm the one that forgot to send three files ;-)
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kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Have at it and when you have something you like, send me a tarball and I'll upload it to the trinity-beta site
MutantTurkeyHey Piki
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay, why are we using Php?
kb9vqfSimple dynamic content
*kb9vqf uses PHP extensively in most of his websites
MutantTurkeyand that goes in the main directory
kb9vqfYes, both of the php files go in the main directory
kb9vqfindex.php is the main page
MutantTurkeyguess i can't use my regular shttpd server :/
MutantTurkeyI'll have to setup lighttpd i guess
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kb9vqfThe PHP is used to be able to specify a default frame
MutantTurkeyyes I got it
kb9vqfOK :)
MutantTurkeyjust gotta setup a php-able server
kb9vqfPoke me if you have any questions or if you are missing any files :)
MutantTurkey(I'm still attempting to package at the same time haha
MutantTurkeyyep it's all good :p
MutantTurkeyI have nothing to do all day, might as well get something accompished
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MutantTurkeythis image has still not loaded in QEMU D:
Pikiqemu's slow
MutantTurkeyi know, on a slow setup also
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-04T18:41:59Z">+o tbottu </mode>
Pikivirtualbox seems to work well, pretty close to the speed of my real hardware, haven't tried vmware or anything else
MutantTurkeyi haven't tried vbox
PikiMutantTurkey: it works great, unfortunately the open source edition doesn't to USB, but the non-OSE is free for personal use. if it's not in your distro's repos, though, you'll need to have the kernel source present for vbox to compile the kernel module
MutantTurkey D:
MutantTurkeyf that.
MutantTurkeyqemu works for now
Pikiyou don't need to compile the kernel, just as long as you install the kernel source package from your distro
Pikior the kernel headers should work as well
MutantTurkeyi have a custom kernel with static modules D: so
MutantTurkeyi'd have to recompile
Pikiyou don't ave the headers or the source?
MutantTurkeyI do
MutantTurkeyI just dont have time to recompile
Pikiyou don't have to, as long as you kept them
MutantTurkeyoh really?
Pikithe vbox installer just needs them to compile the module
MutantTurkeyah excellent
Pikiit needs them so it can compile the module for your particular setup
Pikii've never successfully compiled a kernel
MutantTurkeywhy not?
Pikibut i've installed vbox
PikiMutantTurkey: something always seems to go wrong somewhere. even if it compiles, it won't boot, even if i run mkinitrd to get my hard disk drivers
MutantTurkeyah :p
Pikii do have it on my todo list for whenever i have the time to actually look into it
MutantTurkeyokay now i get the good old 403 forbidden crap.
MutantTurkey&gt;:| dumb php backend fcgi being dumb damnit.
TokRa403 - check the file permissions
MutantTurkeynevermind fixed it up.
MutantTurkeyIt's actually an issue with my lighttpd config
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: i just got rid of the pointless php code since i couldn't get it working, if we need something we can always add it later
kb9vqfI suppose
kb9vqfMake it static and I'll throw the PHP back in
kb9vqfjust keep the php file extension if you can :)
MutantTurkey :o
MutantTurkeysawwy i renamed it all
kb9vqfOh OK
MutantTurkeylemmie just give this a go, all we really need it a simple workup nothing real.
kb9vqfWell I'll rename it back with sed when I get it ;-)
*kb9vqf understands
MutantTurkeywhat about how xfce website looks? http://www.xfce.org/
*kb9vqf likes the Arch one better
MutantTurkeyI think then we should just scratch the current website instead of trying to freshen it up.
MutantTurkeyAll the text we will be able to basically copy and paste, maybe reorginise or rewrite some stuff.
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kb9vqfFor now just copy/paste it
kb9vqfThe text that is
MutantTurkeyAlright. some stuff i think is a obvious change. such as "Welcome to Pearson Computing's fork of KDE3.5, codename Trinity!" to "Trinity Desktop Environment"
kb9vqfWell yes ;-)
kb9vqfWe need to put the KDE3.5 fork info somewhere
kb9vqfMaybe under "History"?
MutantTurkeyor even in the first paragraph
MutantTurkeybut we need to be clear we are NOT KDE. so seperating them is a good idea.
kb9vqfHence the fork mention up front
MutantTurkeyTrinity Desktop Environment: Trinity DE keeps the KDE3.5 computing style alive! It has polished off the rough edges that were present as of KDE 3.5.10. Along the way, new useful features will be added to keep the environment up-to-date.
MutantTurkeythat would be better
kb9vqfAs the environment matures, new useful features will be added to keep the environment up-to-date.
kb9vqfmight be better
kb9vqfFrom a grammatical perspective
kb9vqfAs the environment matures, new useful features will be added to keep it up-to-date.
MutantTurkeywe want to say that 1) we have made huge strides already 2) we are working further to make it even better
kb9vqfProbably the release notes should be more prominent
MutantTurkeyeven that could be the front page
MutantTurkeyNEW AND IMPROVED! Trinity 3.5.12 is out! HERE ARE THE GREAT FEATURES: blah blah blah
MutantTurkeylike kde.org and xfce.org are showing you the latest and greatest!
kb9vqfA section of it anyway
kb9vqfThe first news article?
kb9vqfWorks for me
MutantTurkeyor something along the lines
kb9vqfHow will the news be managed?
kb9vqfFlat text?
MutantTurkeybut not yet
MutantTurkeyI prefer flat file everything tbh
kb9vqfMe too
MutantTurkeyI am am real minimalist
kb9vqfWell, up to a point
kb9vqfMe that is
kb9vqfOver time I may want to throw fast changing stuff into a database
kb9vqfBut I can handle that here
MutantTurkeywell things that should be in a DB or RSS are like package releases
MutantTurkeywhich are often
kb9vqfPerfect example
MutantTurkeywell archlinux even has the setup like that already
kb9vqfMakes it easy then :)
MutantTurkeynice, i got tqtinterface-svn packaged
samelianactually is not very good ideea
samelianto make pure static html files
samelianyou must have something like header.php, footer.php
samelianthen just include it in index.php, about.php, etc
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: samelian is correct ^^^
kb9vqfI would get PHP running if I were you
kb9vqfI can help with that if you need
MutantTurkeyokay sorry I got distracted packaging
kb9vqfThat's fine
MutantTurkey2 packages down now.
kb9vqfGreat! :-)
kb9vqfMaybe 3.5.13 will have Ark support
samelianpardus, right?
kb9vqfArch, sorry ;-
MutantTurkeywhy wouldn't it? I mean at this rate it could
MutantTurkeywill 3.5.13 be using Cmake? i mean svn based packages are quite different than tarball ones but it shouldn't be to hard to convert them all.
kb9vqfRight :)
kb9vqfIf samelian finishes it then yes
*kb9vqf prods samelian ;-)
sameliandepends what meaning Trinity for you :)
samelianat this moment, kdelibs and kdebase are usable
MutantTurkeywhat else is needed?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so finally trying to get php working, I've extracted your dir in my /var/www/ but the permissions are messed up. who should own them?
kb9vqfWell, under Ubuntu anyway
kb9vqfWhat distro did you set up for Apache?
MutantTurkeyapache? I use lighttpd
kb9vqfOh, OK
MutantTurkeyandi only run archlinux :p
kb9vqfI may not be much help then
kb9vqfUsually nobody or www-data owns the web documents
MutantTurkeyhave debian on server box that is currently unusuable
kb9vqfJust don't make it root and you should be OK ;-)
MutantTurkeyi get the 403 forbidden error on any file i try and access
kb9vqfAre the php files executable?
kb9vqfThey need to be +x
TokRathere is no need to
MutantTurkeyyeah you've chmod +x everything actually
MutantTurkeyhopefully that works.
TokRachmod -R a+rx /var/www
MutantTurkeyTokRa: thanka!
kb9vqfLooks like the PHP interpreter is not running
TokRaphp files are offered to downoad, they are not being handled
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yeah hold up i have to do that now.
MutantTurkeyI first had to sort out the permissions error
MutantTurkeynow i can setup fcgi
TokRathe web server is not set up to handle php file properly
MutantTurkeyTokRa: yes. I am going to do that now
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: one reason i love arch, they have wiki article for everything https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fastcgi_and_lighttpd
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Pikikb9vqf: does tbottu use tcl scripts for explaining stuff?
kb9vqfNot sure
kb9vqfI know it supports the infobot protocol
kb9vqfBut I think it has an internal implementation of some sort
Pikiif it does, those might be useful for the ark bot
kb9vqfPiki: Eggdrop might work for you
Pikikb9vqf: it's already working, it just doesn't do much without external scripts
TokRanice :)
kb9vqfLooks familiar
MutantTurkeysorry. that was local
MutantTurkeyhttp:// should work now.
Xu_R_nice MutantTurkey :)
TokRaPlease, add more default filenames to DocumentRoot
PikiMutantTurkey: lol, i was wandering about that, 192.168.*.* is generally reserved  for local networks
*Xu_R_ is eating homemade ramen :D
MutantTurkeyyes. a bit tired aha
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: delicious! i love ramen.
Xu_R_whoo! :D
Pikiramen, the cheap yet tasty food ;-)
Xu_R_Piki: mine is NOT cheap. I made it myself.
MutantTurkeyPiki: part of my main diet
MutantTurkeythat, canned chili and toast and such
Xu_R_kb9vqf: what's with the tbottu?
Xu_R_what is it running?
kb9vqftbottu, what is tbottu
tbottukb9vqf: I have heard that tbottu is your benevolent host and logging droid, capable of giving helpful misinformation, bug status messages, and translations via Yahoo
kb9vqfXu_R: mozbot
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: another idea, is to keep the webpage in an svn repo so you can commit changes.
Xu_R_I'm using supybot
MutantTurkeysupybot is great
Xu_R_I can't get the meetbot to save files, so it's a pain in the ass when I can't #endmeeting
Pikiramen, pizza, spaghetti, and mac'n'cheese,  wish i had some of my grandmother's recipes though, she wasn't a gourmet chef, but she definitely was much better!
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: ya :D
Pikiwow, i need practice my typing speed lol
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Xu_R_hehe, there's my bot there :D
MutantTurkeyPiki: meh. i gave up on that shit a long time ago
Xu_R_of course, I have no idea if it works
MutantTurkeyI never had good typing skills and i don't even type correctly :o
Xu_R_!ping MutantTurkey
Xu_R_yup, it works. :P
Xu_R_yes, MutantTurkey, I shall play ping pong on your head XD
MutantTurkeylike my right hand always rests over by the l key and i use it a ton for backspace and such
PikiMutantTurkey: well as a computer geek, i'll be expected to type fast when i get a job ;-)
MutantTurkeyi use my left hand to write evertything as far as the yhu keys
MutantTurkeyi could try and relearn how to type but meh
Pikii do have a job, but hoping to get a better one soon
Xu_R_!part #trinity-desktop EWWWW, tbottu is here
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kb9vqftbottu, what is lindaemon
tbottukb9vqf: well, duh. lindaemon is a nasty competitor bot, rarely heard since I banished it from the solar system
Xu_R_I see you defined my bot :P
MutantTurkeyhttp:// some simple changes so far
Xu_R_tbottu, what is kb9vqf
tbottuXu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'kb9vqf' is.
Xu_R_kb9vqf: ^ nice to know you're alien XD
kb9vqfAnd I like to keep it that way for now :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yeah you should get a easier to remember nick :p
Xu_R_kb9vqf: samelian: I'm moving stuff off of build.opensuse.org to build.lincomlinux.org, because I'm having major trouble with their current server state. So if you want to see Trinity RPM stuff there, you'll have to register at build.lincomlinux.org (which is disabled atm, I'm fixing it)
kb9vqfAh, well, I dunno
samelianXu_R_: very well
kb9vqfDo I sense another QuickBuild?
Xu_R_kb9vqf: It runs the openSUSE Build Service. Seriously, it can build debs too and create repositories for them as well :P
Xu_R_kb9vqf: and maybe. :P
kb9vqfI know, but it's a local instance because the main instance drove you nuts once too often
kb9vqfThat's how it's the same ;-)
Xu_R_kb9vqf: ... OH LOL yes yes I see :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: one of your problems is that the page is just really cluttured.
MutantTurkeyI am trying to cutdown on the amount of text
kb9vqfLots of info
kb9vqfShould be moved to other pages IMO
MutantTurkeywhich should go on sub pages
MutantTurkeycleaning it up a bit
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: Maybe switch to a CMS like Drupal? :D
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: well we are talking about that
MutantTurkeyso any ideas are welcome
MutantTurkeyright now i am just trying to clean things up in the mean time.
Pikiyes, drupal works great, a bit of getting used to, but easy and makes a lot of sense once you do
MutantTurkeyPiki: how fast/slow/bloated/easy to setup is it?
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: psh, you always know i'm here to help. or annoy kb9vqf/samelian xD
Xu_R_I was the one who recommended Piki use Drupal
Xu_R_I use it myself - very customizable
PikiMutantTurkey: fast, not bloated, lots of modules and themes on their site, and the administration page organizes and explains all the setup/admin stuff
MutantTurkeywe'd want something pretty minimal I'd assume
PikiMutantTurkey: check Xu_R_'s lincomlinux site and the arklinux.org site i'm webmastering
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: then keep to the minimal with drupal :)
MutantTurkeyone thing great about the current website is that it works with, mobile phones, old computers, tiny screens, cli browsers. etc.
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: there's a module for that xD
MutantTurkeyArk linux still exists?
Xu_R_well, i'm not here to advertise with drupal for now
PikiMutantTurkey: yes, it's been in existance
Xu_R_I'm here to grapple with TQtinterface
MutantTurkeyPiki: are they tryng to relaunch/
Pikiwe've been really struggling with kde4
PikiMutantTurkey: no, they are trying to release
Pikithey've been launched
MutantTurkeythey still havent released?
Xu_R_samelina: since I'm still migrating, we can still work on build.o.o for the time being
Xu_R_LOL oops, samelina. s/samelina/samelian
Pikiyes, our head dev wanted to replace HAL, but couldn't force KDE4 to use it, and he's working on a new init system, quite fast and stable, still needs a couple things though, like support for a boot splash
MutantTurkeyPiki: why not get them to use trinity?
Xu_R_https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=tqtinterface&amp;project=home%3Abravoall1552%3Atrinity - the x86_64 builds of SUSE 11.3 and Factory are failing strangely.
samelianusing drupal for such simple website is a big everhead
MutantTurkeythat would sure help us out a hella lot
MutantTurkeysamelian: yeah?
PikiMutantTurkey: we are, we'll be releasing both KDE4 and TDE
PikiMutantTurkey: and that's not the only problem, we are switching to RPM5, and need to find a decent Qt frontend to zypper, because zypper was the easiest to port to RPM5
PikiMutantTurkey: any unnecessary dependencies? i seem to remember something about devkit or something that our head dev didn't want to include
MutantTurkeynot sure
MutantTurkeycheck it out
MutantTurkeyhaven't used it myself
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: what about just using MediaWiki and run a wiki for a website? quite a few projects do that
kb9vqfI always associate those with poorly designed/lazy projects
MutantTurkeyJust throwing it out there
kb9vqfSeems I can never find what I want if I see a Wiki first thing
kb9vqfJust my experience
samelianmy problem with actual wiki is that i cannot find anything :)
Xu_R_lol samelian
MutantTurkeyunless it is Archlinux wiki, which is super amazing xD
Pikikb9vqf: because people don't know how to organize the site, though i still like mediawiki as the wiki
kb9vqfYeah, I've heard that quite a bit now
kb9vqfCan't do anything about it unless there is an automated conversion somewhere, OR someone wants to waste lots of time moving pages over
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: i have alot of time
kb9vqfWebsite first ;-)
kb9vqfThen Wiki
samelianMutantTurkey: haha
MutantTurkeyfirst of all, we need to deceide about the website!
samelianso, we must to find something to do for you :)
Pikihmm, packagekit lists polkit as a dep, which lists no contributors or commiters, and low activity
Pikion their GSoC page
MutantTurkeywhat? polkit is fine
Xu_R_Piki: psh. polkit is fine
samelianMutantTurkey: if you want, I can mentoring you how to port trinity to cmake
Xu_R_and devicekit is also depreciated
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: what are we using no?
Xu_R_into udev-extras, udisks, and upower, now part of the base linux system
MutantTurkeyi have honestly lost track since the whole hal changeover
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: right.
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: we're still stuck with hal
MutantTurkeyyou are?
MutantTurkeyi don't even have it installed.
Xu_R_but we're migrating straight to udev-extras, udisks, adn upower
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: Really? that's strange.
MutantTurkeywho is we? Archlinux has already migrated
Xu_R_I meant Trinity.
kb9vqfYou have KDE3 on udev??
Pikipolkit seems to be a hardware abstractor or something, which we plan to replace anyway
MutantTurkeyoh sorry
Xu_R_Trinity still uses HAL, MutantTurkey...
MutantTurkeyi was so confused.
MutantTurkeythought i was in my ubuntu channel xD
Xu_R_Piki: no. polkit isn't such a thing if you don't want it to be one.
*Xu_R_ facepalms MutantTurkey
PikiXu_R_: that's what it seems to be describing on the page
Pikithat and networking
Pikiwhich we already have
Xu_R_Piki: Only if you make it use it!
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: I just figured out all that hal depreciation stuff like a week ago, don't worry :P
PikiXu_R_: then what's the point of requiring polkit in packagekit?
Xu_R_To install packages.
Pikibut that's zypper/rpm
Xu_R_Polkit is like a fine access-control su and sudo
Pikiwe can just use ark's PAM modules
Pikiwhich allows the default user to install software anyway
Pikianf if the user doesn't want that, kdesu and kdesudo
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: hahah
samelianPiki: this is not a potential security hole?
Pikisamelian: no, not like the user can run a root konsole to auto-execute a command or soemthingl like that, there's a description on the wiki
Pikii've been using ark since february 2007, never had any kind of viruses, spyware, hack attempts, or other security problems
Pikibesides, i don't really like the sudo way of doing things, all i need to do is type my own normal user password, and destroy the system, which the PAM modules don't allow
Pikiand i can assign certain things on a per-user basis, so nobody sees my root password to get unlimited rights, they just get what they absolutely need
sameliando not forget about privilege escalation exploits
Pikii thought the root escalation thing was fixed?
Xu_R_Piki: the way Polkit does it, however, is when the application calls polkit to auth (via dbus), it runs the application as a polkit daemon user, which tunnels the application to root via a securely locked down env, if I recall correctly (which rarely happens)
PikiXu_R_: if you can sanitize dbus to get bero to accept it
Xu_R_Piki: oh, there's another one right now that is still being investingated. Nice discussion on lfs-dev about it.
Xu_R_I can't spell for my life today
Xu_R_no wonder my english teacher stared at me .-.
Pikibesides, we already have our PAM modules
Pikiwhich do the same thing, without dbus
PikiXu_R_: well our PAM modules can work regardless of if the exploit is fixed, and if it does get fixed, well all the better because it doesn't compromise security either way
Pikiand if the exploit is there, there's nothing our PAM modules can do about it, because it isn't the kernel or bash or...
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I've sort of orginized it with headers.
Pikiwhat Ark needs is a GUI tool for zypper that doesn't drag in any extra deps or luggage we don't need, and we can just use PAM
MutantTurkeyPiki: then write one yourself
MutantTurkeyI mean it is Ark linux, it should have and Ark frontend :p
MutantTurkeywhat about Shaman?
MutantTurkeyoh wiat.
MutantTurkeythats for pacman not zypper :/
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PikiMutantTurkey: yet i doubt most distros have their own
MutantTurkeydude package kit. i am telling you
Pikiand i don't know how to code, our only coder is always overwhelmed by work, and has to fix our dependency mess
MutantTurkeyMoblin, fedora, foresight, kubuntu opensuse all use it
PikiMutantTurkey: we don't want polkit
Pikiand we don't like fedora, ubuntu, and we only use opensuse's zypper because it's the only option
MutantTurkeywhy is that (jw)?
PikiMutantTurkey: well, nobody wants to be seen as a nooby, so they all stay away from us
PikiMutantTurkey: they just don't work
Pikion any of our systems
MutantTurkeypacman ;D
MutantTurkeywhat is the goal of Ark Linux?
PikiMutantTurkey: all of our packages are rpm, we don't have the man power to care to switch, and we want to release
MutantTurkeyhow large is the total team?
PikiMutantTurkey: be easy enough for the unexperienced, flexible for long-time users, and remain "technically sane", which means excluding polkit and ditching udev/hal asap
MutantTurkeyPiki: no reason to ditch udev.
MutantTurkeyjust hal
PikiMutantTurkey: one packager/dev, two webmasters , three site admins (including the two webmaster), and a site moderator
PikiMutantTurkey: udev seems to operate a bit weird on most of our systems
MutantTurkeyso basically this whole project is driven by one man?
PikiMutantTurkey: yes. we used to have more, but real life took over
MutantTurkeybasically :/
MutantTurkeywhat is Ark based on top of?
samelianMutantTurkey: do not wonder to much, trinity itself have only two developers :)
Pikiand i'm about to join in on packaging once i get my system setup for TDE
PikiMutantTurkey: based on top of?
MutantTurkeysamelian: :) I'll be helping about soon probably, if kb9vqf
MutantTurkeyif kb9vqf lets me ;)
MutantTurkeyPiki: nevermind
kb9vqfOf course I'll let you ;-)
samelianMutantTurkey: you have C++ background?
MutantTurkeysamelian: :o no.
sameliani see
MutantTurkeyI am a pure C coder. though I am sure i can learn
MutantTurkeyi have absolutely no background in anything, no formal training, no job in real life, nothing.
samelianif you don't want to bother with Qt/C++, you can help us with cmake
MutantTurkeyI can do both.
MutantTurkeyfirst i would like to get you modernized with a website and packages for archlinux.
Xu_R_I'm learning C++ right now :D (of course, knowledge = limited right now)
MutantTurkeyi also would definitely help out with cmake
Xu_R_I think I'll stick with packaging right now, and then maybe take  a look at the code :)
MutantTurkeyi though C++ is not so different than C? I mean syntax may be different and its all object oriented but anything else?
samelianit's enough, I think
samelianactually the problem is learning qt, not c++ itself
kb9vqfWebsite/CMake can be done while you learn Qt/C++
kb9vqfSo you are still of use to the project for sure
*kb9vqf is not about to turn down extra help ;-)
MutantTurkeyi also hear Qt is quite nice to develop on
MutantTurkeyat least much saner than GTK.
kb9vqfOh yes!
Pikiif anybody programming in Qt wants to write a graphical frontend to zypper that is just the interface and just passes everything to zypper, using easy-to-understand code and a simple and easy interface, feel free to jump on our mailing list/forum and live support ;-)
MutantTurkeyI have done quite a bit with GTK and such so I am familiar with learning APIS and shit
Pikianyway, must go to work
MutantTurkeyPiki: i could do that maybe
MutantTurkeyPiki: as LONG as zypper has a library interface
MutantTurkeywriting frontend wrappers sucks ass.
samelianhowever, trinity have a lot areas to learn
kb9vqfJust be careful not to spread yourself too thin
PikiMutantTurkey: it does have a library (libzypp), and a command line util (zypper) to use it
*kb9vqf knows from experience
samelianfor example, kcm (kcontrol) modules, kioslaves, etc
MutantTurkeyPiki: nice
MutantTurkeywe could maybe switch shaman to use zypper
MutantTurkeyShaman is a pacman for KDE enviroment frontend
sameliankb9vqf: seems that glib interface for upower is not so nice as I expected
PikiMutantTurkey: we don't want it to have any weird deps on hal/udev/hotplug/etc, just make calls to zypper or use it's lib, which already handles grabbing the stuff from the repos and passing it to rpm
Pikianyways, must go, starting to run late
MutantTurkeyPiki: of course not.
samelianI started to check if upower interface can be easy implemented using qt3 dbus
kb9vqfsamelian: upower/udev is practically unusable as-is
kb9vqfHence the need for libkpower and friends
*kb9vqf had guessed that by looking at the API a while back
samelianfor sure
kb9vqfLinux is not helping us here
samelianI will try to implement upower low level interface in pure qt
kb9vqfSure, go ahead
kb9vqfJust don't use Qt4 specific things
sameliannot matter, actually
kb9vqfMake it work in Qt3
kb9vqfThen TQt can take over
samelianI using d-pointer
samelianto hide implementation details
samelianthe API will be the same for qt3/qt4
kb9vqfOK, but if the backend is Qt4 based then I can't switch from HAL
kb9vqfWe need something working 100% under Qt3
kb9vqfBefore a full switch from HAL can be made
samelianATM, i implement qt3, because I want to use with actualy trinity
kb9vqfTQt for Qt4 is too far off
kb9vqfGood :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay cleaned it up  bit. what think you?
kb9vqfIt's a bit better
sameliantry to use an sans-serif font
kb9vqfOrganizationally that is
MutantTurkeythat was the focus
kb9vqfIt definitely needs style help :)
samelianserif fonts are designed for printing, not for screens
MutantTurkeysamelian: i think we use default fonts?
*kb9vqf is trying to imagine it in the archlinux scheme
kb9vqfWhy don't you get the archlinux-like style integrated?
kb9vqfThat way we can see what the end result will be
kb9vqfJust a thought
MutantTurkeyhmmm? that is insane i think.
MutantTurkeyI will give it a shot
MutantTurkeylet me try.
samelianif you need help for css, i have some experience with it
MutantTurkeysamelian: great thanks
kb9vqfAnd I can help with the graphics
kb9vqfTo some extent
kb9vqfTo replace the archlinux logo and such
MutantTurkeyright. that is easy enoguh
MutantTurkeyokay, so the archlinux website is written with python.
kb9vqfBackend engine is ???
MutantTurkeypython python python
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samelianprobably django
samelianno matter very much
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MutantTurkeysorry did i quit? dumb pidgin
kb9vqfI was actually wondering about the content database
kb9vqfSQL, flat file, or something else
sameliandjango is a framework written in python
samelianlike ruby on rails, for example
MutantTurkeyyeah this is quite confusing i cannot figure it out.
MutantTurkeyarchlinux has it available on their website's git tree
kb9vqfI'm guessing we just need to take its database and tweak it
kb9vqfThen change the style elements some
sameliani can do it in few hours, but i'm too lazy :)
MutantTurkeyI think i am going to play pond hockey soon
MutantTurkeyall tentative though, hopefully the ice is good
sameliani'm bored too much by web development in my real job
kb9vqfAnd upower is too exciting?
samelianhehe, for sure
samelianbrb, rebooting access point
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*Xu_R_ is tired...
Xu_R_it's only 1650 too... I hate waking up at 545 every weekday lol
samelianthere is 23:50 :)
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: EST also? nice.
Xu_R_samelian: CET, I'm guessing? :)
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: Yup, DC
samelianEET, i think
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: philly up here.
Xu_R_samelian: oh yea, that's EET.
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: oh, well, you have the prowess of living near the crazy Piki (because he says he lives up in philly, no idea how true that is xD)
samelianwhat is philly?
Xu_R_samelian: Philadelphia, PA, USA
samelianaa, thx :)
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: :o uh oh. well.
Xu_R_lol MutantTurkey
MutantTurkeyTrinity Drinking party!
samelianI drink already few beers
samelianand same time I try to understand dbus-qt3 :))
MutantTurkeyrelevent text: http://xkcd.com/323/
samelianyeah :)
sameliani think I need few more beers
samelianwtf, my klipper crashing when I select some text in qt assistant
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sameliankb9vqf: you notice that kde4 migrating to git?
*kb9vqf doesn't want to learn another VCS
kb9vqfI'm sick of change for the sake of change
kb9vqfMy limited experience with git is not, shall we say, positive
kb9vqfI'll probably end up cloning the SVN tree and hosting it here
kb9vqfNot something i was looking forward to doing
*kb9vqf goes back to work, grumbling and muttering
MutantTurkeygit is awesome
kb9vqfThat may be, but the change sure isn't when you're dealing with a project the size of Trinity
kb9vqfAnd all the automated tools that have been slowly built around SVN
kb9vqfe.g. first thing to break will be that nice set of patches on the Trinity website
kb9vqfFollowed by other items internally
kb9vqfMaybe we'll move in the future, but NOT NOW
*samelian is proud, just getting power devices list using qt3 dbus :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: check this out
kb9vqfOoo, nice!
MutantTurkeyalso removes the need for frames, which suck
kb9vqfCan that gray become white though?
MutantTurkeyone thing you want to have is the ability to change everything at once, so we can use php to include source code from a different file
MutantTurkeythat is all css able
samelianMutantTurkey: try #dedede for grey
MutantTurkeysamelian: kb9vqf said white
kb9vqfOr very light gray
kb9vqfLet's see which looks better
kb9vqfI hate the dark gray, that's all
samelianme too
kb9vqfAlso, I'd like that header on all pages
*kb9vqf can use PHP I suppose
kb9vqfIs the header in a separate php file?
samelianactually black header looking like kde4
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: like i said, will be.
MutantTurkeyWAIT WHAT?
MutantTurkeyto many chats open -__-
samelianin any case, the contrast between pure black and pure white is too high
MutantTurkeysamelian: yes
MutantTurkeyi am looking for a lighter grey
sameliangrey is boring, i think
samelianat least for header
kb9vqfWhat did white look like?
MutantTurkeyokay. look we can deal with that later
MutantTurkeyit hurt my eyes
MutantTurkeylet me show you
MutantTurkeylook now
kb9vqfI still see gray...
MutantTurkeyrefresh should do it.
kb9vqfAre we talking about the same thing?
samelianalso, try body { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; }
kb9vqfI meant the header background
MutantTurkeyyeah sorry
MutantTurkeyweird padding
kb9vqfI was wondering what a white background with blue text would look like
samelianblue text meaning link
kb9vqfFor the links
kb9vqfNot for the other elements ;-)
samelianwe must avoid blue for texts
MutantTurkeythere we go. fixed that body issue
kb9vqfI was referring to blue text for the shortcut links on the top right
samelianthe text must be dark grey or black
MutantTurkeyI am confused by all of you talking D:
kb9vqfDark blue for links, black for text
MutantTurkeyand the bar?
kb9vqfBlue, as it is
kb9vqfWhat about a background like ktip uses?
kb9vqfWith the little squares fading away?
kb9vqfI kind of like that effect :)
MutantTurkeythat means a image.
MutantTurkeythat means slower loads.
sameliannow, you need a content div, with some padding
MutantTurkeysamelian: right. no fucking idea with that. tbh
MutantTurkeyI am trying to fix the html right now.
samelianmake this in css
MutantTurkeyits a bit messy
kb9vqfWell, I was just thinking something other than white
MutantTurkeysamelian: this is a css file.
samelian#content { padding: 10px; }
samelianthen put the content in
samelian&lt;div id="content"&gt;blablabla content&lt;/div&gt;
MutantTurkeyoh okay
MutantTurkeyso basically you tag a div with an id and then it reads the css for it?
MutantTurkeyapplys the settings
MutantTurkeyah. css is not so hard :)
samelianactually is not
samelianfor classes, you can use . (dot)
samelian.content { padding: 10px; }
MutantTurkeyright i don't know that yet
samelian&lt;div class="content"&gt;blabla&lt;/div&gt;
samelianthe id is used ONLY for unique objects
MutantTurkeyso i start a divider and anything in that falls under content?
sameliananything until corespondent &lt;/div&gt;
MutantTurkeylook now :D :D
samelianvery well :)
MutantTurkeygreat :D
sameliando not forget to close opened divs
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so this is definitely good progress. I think i need to take a break fromt  the computer.
MutantTurkeysamelian: of course. sanity is key.
kb9vqfOK, incredibly crude mock up, but what about this color scheme:
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: ^^
MutantTurkeyfrom now on use imgur okay?
kb9vqfAh, much nicer
MutantTurkeyokay that theme is nice.
MutantTurkeyimgur is just really easy.
*kb9vqf didn't know about it
kb9vqfThanks :)
MutantTurkeyyou can direct link files
MutantTurkeyany way i think i will go for a walk
sameliankb9vqf: KDE3 have any class specialized to contain errors (type, name, etc)?
samelianI won't to send QDBusError directly to classes which will use libkupower
kb9vqfI don't see any
kb9vqfUsually errors are just handled via custom (class-specific) typdefs
kb9vqfenums that is
sameliani want to emit a signal when an error ocur
kb9vqfYou could always create one ;-)
kb9vqfUse an int type
kb9vqfTo contain the error
kb9vqfQString for description
samelianright now all apps which using dbus (like knetworkmanager) do not send usefull errors to user
samelianmaybe we need to invent a generic error class?
samelianhaha, terror
sameliansounds nice
*kb9vqf got Kate working (mostly) under Qt4... :)
samelianon the other hand, seems that I will be able to handle DBUS directly
*kb9vqf needs to go...sorry....
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Try the new color scheme
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: do you think we should have a right justified sub menu and such like arch linux?
kb9vqfFor release information and files
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay, well how would we integrate that immediately
MutantTurkeyand i am going to get rid of index.php and rename index.html to index.php
kb9vqfPut the 3.5.11 and 3.5.12 links in that box
kb9vqfThe ones that were on the lower left
MutantTurkeyoh okies.
kb9vqfWe might move the distribution stuff there eventually, not sure ATM
MutantTurkeydo you have an rss feed for package updates? or something
kb9vqfNot yet
*kb9vqf doesn't know much about RSS
kb9vqfBut I'm willing to learn :)
kb9vqfSeems to be all the rage these days
MutantTurkey:) great
MutantTurkeyokay. what we need is
MutantTurkeya single defining sentance that defines trinity.
*kb9vqf needs to go...sorry....
kb9vqfpoke me later :)
MutantTurkeyokay great
sameliani'm not sure how to return values from my classes
MutantTurkeyreturn value;
samelianbool TClient::enumerateDevices(QValueList&lt;TDevice&gt; &amp;devices);
samelianQValueList&lt;TDevice&gt; TClient::enumerateDevices(bool *ok);
sameliankb9vqf: you have any preffered way?
samelianMutantTurkey: is not so simple :)
MutantTurkeysamelian: sorry i honestly was joking. I'm sure its confusing
sameliani know :)
samelianthe problem is that I need to return two values at same time
samelianand I want to choose a "standard" way
samelianusing the first method, is easy to test if the method was succesfully executed
samelianif(client-&gt;enumerateDevices(devices)) qWarning("We have a problem");
samelian"if(!", actually
samelianthe second method is more clear
samelianbool ok;
samelianQValueList&lt;TDevice&gt; devices = TClient::enumerateDevices(&amp;ok);
samelianif(!ok) qWarning("We have a problem");
MutantTurkeyright, well
MutantTurkeyboth ways seem pretty normal to me
samelianyes, but i need to choose one :)
MutantTurkeyI say first one, seems more standard C to me. I don't know about C++
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: hey so i have it including the top bar now :D
samelianC++ support referrences, not only pointers
MutantTurkeyyes i do not understand references
samelianis something like this:
samelianmy_function(bool &amp;ok);
samelianI will call this function in this way:
samelianbool ok;
samelianwithout using &amp;ok
MutantTurkeyoh alright
samelianalso, if i'm not wrong, C cannot return structures
samelianonly pointers
samelianor i'm wrong?
samelianC++ have operators overloading too
samelianfor example, you can redefine the meaning of =, -, +, etc
MutantTurkeyc can return structures?
MutantTurkeypointers are everything in C
samelianyes, I know
MutantTurkeybut you could also return a structure i think.
samelianas general rule, in C++ are avoided, if possible
samelianto avoid potential leaks
samelianmemory leaks*
MutantTurkeyyou definitely can. for example. i wrote a web browser, to dynamicallycreate structures of tabs, i had a function that returned new tabs after being allocated
MutantTurkeymemory leaks D:
MutantTurkeythe bane of my existanc
samelianvalgrind is your friend :)
MutantTurkeyyeah super useful
MutantTurkeyvalgrind and gdb and such
samelianif you check a (good writen) C++ source, you will found that pointers are almost unused
MutantTurkeysamelian: okay what else needs to happen?
samelianseems ok for me
samelianas layout
MutantTurkeyokay. great
samelianmaybe a little bigger padding for #content
sameliantry 20px
samelianfor validate html, use http://validator.w3.org/
MutantTurkeyi am sanitizing it right now.
samelianuse the same case for tags
sameliani preffer lower case for tags
MutantTurkeyit was all uppercase
MutantTurkeyso i didn't change it
MutantTurkeyi could use sed to replace them, but i am lazy
MutantTurkeyit is proper to do &lt;/p&gt; right?
MutantTurkeyand that acts as a &lt;BR&gt; also?
sameliansort of
samelian&lt;br&gt; and &lt;hr&gt; can be avoided
MutantTurkeyhr is a line i thought
samelianhorizontal line
samelianyou can use style
samelianfor div
MutantTurkeyyou can style it to add a horizontal line?
samelianborder-bottom: solid 1px #000000
MutantTurkeythank you.
MutantTurkeyI am linking css more and more :)
samelianactually this is the way
samelianweb 2.0 :)
MutantTurkeygross :p
MutantTurkeyactually i like web 2.0 just not anything that is over  doing it.
samelianalso, we must avoid &lt;font&gt; tag
MutantTurkeyhttp://incise.org is my style
MutantTurkeysamelian: yes i know. that is obvious
samelianfor most my own pages, I use incise.org style too
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: nice new layout, it looks good for a Trinity website :) I'd love to see that on Trinity anytime, just maybe not so much looking like Arch
Xu_R_'s website o.o
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: yes. we are re theming it.
MutantTurkeymore like that.
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: niceeee
samelianon right side we can put trinity screenshots
MutantTurkeywant some on the home page?
samelianwhy now
MutantTurkeyif you could send me a nice, default picture i could add it.
MutantTurkeyI'll make a thumbnail (should be standard) and then have a screenshot section
MutantTurkeythumbnails are low quality and low res as to make it loast faster
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: letthe screenshot of the latest release
Xu_R_*let's have it so the screenshot is of the latest release
MutantTurkeythe screen of te latest release?
MutantTurkeycan i get one, I don't have trinity :o
Xu_R_http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/cdimages/ the ad screenshots :)
samelianMutantTurkey: for body you do not need to use id
samelianyou can declare in css in this way:
samelianbody { blabla styles; }
MutantTurkeysamelian: hmmm I thought i did that
MutantTurkeythere we go
samelianin your css i see #body
MutantTurkeylook at the html. sanitized.
MutantTurkeywait not yet D: wtf is with all these caps
samelianclose &lt;/body&gt; and &lt;/html&gt; too
MutantTurkeyhow do i not use font if i want a specific font for one word?
MutantTurkey(for the record i didn't write this page, it was already messed up i am fixing it up.
samelian&lt;span style="font:"&gt;
MutantTurkeyisn't that basically the same thing?
samelianactually is not good ideea to change font face in text
MutantTurkeyI typically disagree but not in this point
MutantTurkeyin this case the colors are important
sameliani see that here we use font for changing colose
samelianyou can use this style:
samelianspan.red { color: #ff0000; }
samelianand in html
sameliantest &lt;span class="red"&gt;red text&lt;/span&gt;
MutantTurkeyso span.red span.green etc?
MutantTurkeywhat about &lt;i&gt; and &lt;b&gt;?
samelianand &lt;strong&gt;
MutantTurkeywow really?
MutantTurkeyi thought we got rid of strong
samelianin any case, I do not like very much textes with too many colors
samelianis like a rambow :)
samelianparrot, actually :)
MutantTurkeywhat about the totally rank gnarley table he has there, what should i do with it?
MutantTurkeysamelian: another q, with the bottem border, should i make an ID for each group or one for them all?
samelianonly one
MutantTurkeynamed "section" ?
MutantTurkeyis that fine?
samelianyes, pretty clear
MutantTurkeyokay sweet
MutantTurkeymy childhood hobby of working on html is returning rapidly
samelianjust do not use id, but class
samelianas i said, id is for unique objects
MutantTurkeyclass="blah blah blah"
MutantTurkeydefined the same way?
samelianput . (dot) instead #, in css
MutantTurkeyso .content { padding: 10px; font-family: sans-serif;}
MutantTurkeyfor example
MutantTurkeyso you reckon this new website will be used?
sameliani'm, pretty sure :)
MutantTurkeysweet. i hope everyone is impressed
samelianmake likes grey
samelianseparator lines
samelianfor sections
MutantTurkeyyeah, how do i add padding to them?
MutantTurkeylike, the bottom border is right up on the last line of the divider
samelianinstead solid you can also use dotted and dashed
samelianalso, you can use margin-top, margin-bottom
MutantTurkeyokay also, should i create a footer also?
<msg channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="samelian" time="2011-02-05T00:51:12Z">© 2011 blabla</msg>
MutantTurkeyyeah all that jaz
samelianput in &lt;head&gt; this:
samelian&lt;meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"&gt;
samelianand before &lt;html&gt;
samelian&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"&gt;
MutantTurkeyokay did that
MutantTurkeyno wait.
MutantTurkeyits not html is php
MutantTurkeydoes that matter?
MutantTurkeyit does
MutantTurkeybecause i just added it and removed it and it broke the header during it.
MutantTurkeydidn't seem to load the CSS
samelianfor browser is plain html
MutantTurkeyfixed it
MutantTurkeythe meta needed a /&gt; on the end
sameliancheck with html validator
sameliani think you have some errors
MutantTurkeythanks for your no stop help
samelianat this moment, is my current job :)
samelianunfortunately for me
MutantTurkeyyeah this would be no fun
samelianyou have no &lt;html&gt; before &lt;head&gt;
MutantTurkeyi am so forgetful
MutantTurkeythe validator is telling me i can't have a /&gt; at the end of my first line, but without it my css won't load D:
MutantTurkeyI'm already on it :P
samelianremove it
samelianthen will see what happens
MutantTurkeyno or else my css breaks?
samelianis break for a reason
samelianremove / and will see what is wrong
MutantTurkeythe only thing wrong is apparently tables are no longer supposed to use bordercolor or padding
MutantTurkeyhow do i put that into a css property?
MutantTurkeymake an id for a table?
sameliantry to remove media= from css link
sameliani'm not sure what is wrong with it
samelianwait a moment
sameliantry to remove  media="screen, projection"
MutantTurkeyi did
samelianhmm, strange
MutantTurkeyyeah, would it be related to my php include maybe?
sameliani don't think so
samelianhehe, you must be happy that "This document was successfully checked as HTML 4.01 Transitional!" :)
MutantTurkeywell apparently it is valid
MutantTurkeyshould i just say  "FUCK STANDARDS" and fix the two lines back to the way they were?
MutantTurkeyi mean other than that it is valid
samelianok, remove !DOCTYPE, will check another time what is the problem
samelianwait, i will validate css too
MutantTurkeyokay good thinking
MutantTurkeywon't validate
MutantTurkeymy mime types are screwey it won't serve it up.
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samelianseems that your server announce that css is octet-stream
MutantTurkeyyeah whatever
MutantTurkeyi'll copy paste
samelianmust be css/text
sameliani think you must set lighthttp to announce corect tyle of css file
MutantTurkeyI just copied in the text to the CSS validator
MutantTurkeysaid 'grats no errors :)
MutantTurkeydo you think that is why my css is messed up?
sameliani think that will working well on correct set server
sameliannope, i don't think so
MutantTurkeyoh well. I am not worried.
MutantTurkeyit is fine
sameliancorrect "Offical" word
*Xu_R_ goes to play with tbottu
sameliantbottu: who you are?
tbottusamelian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'who you' are.
MutantTurkeywho is tbottu
Xu_R_tbottu, who are you?
Xu_R_tbottu: who are you?
Xu_R_DX it doesn't like me XD
samelianhe have no ideea :)
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: just the channel bot :P
Xu_R_tbottu, what is kb9vqf?
tbottuXu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'kb9vqf' is.
MutantTurkeyXu_R_: needs a different name
Xu_R_tbottu, what are you?
MutantTurkeyyou guys need simpler names D:
sameliantbottu: who is tbottu
Xu_R_tbottu: help
tbottusamelian: everyone knows that! tbottu is your benevolent host and logging droid, capable of giving helpful misinformation, bug status messages, and translations via Yahoo
tbottuXu_R_: help info /msg'ed
MutantTurkeyis tbottu a supybot?
MutantTurkeyIt'd be nice to have it fetch link titles and such
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: no, it's the mozilla ircbot
sameliantbottu: google blabla
tbottusamelian: Sorry, I've no idea what 'google blabla' might be.
sameliantbottu: you are stupid
tbottusamelian: But you are 'still of use to the project for sure'...
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Xu_R_tbottu, converter
tbottuXu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'converter' might be.
sameliantbottu: help
MutantTurkeymozilla irc bot?
tbottusamelian: help info /msg'ed
MutantTurkeymake it a supy bot
Xu_R_tbottu, Convert 25 F to C
tbottuXu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Convert 25 F to C' might be.
sameliantbottu: 1+1
tbottusamelian: Sorry, I've no idea what '1+1' might be.
Xu_R_tbottu, temperature 25F
tbottuXu_R_: Sorry, I've no idea what 'temperature 25F' might be.
sameliantbottu: Xu_R_ is sad
Xu_R_the tbottu is dumb.
tbottusamelian: ok
MutantTurkeyokay new theme
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: :O
samelianMutantTurkey: change color for menu intems
Xu_R_oooh, ahhhh... /stares
MutantTurkeyto blue?
Xu_R_it looks perfect for me :)
MutantTurkeyhahah :p
sameliancan by a grey background
Xu_R_MutantTurkey: top menu, hovering over menu items should not make them white (aka, unseeable)
samelianput this:
sameliana:hover { background-color: grey; }
MutantTurkeythere we go
samelianor you can do this
MutantTurkeyI did it (was just a color change, the hover was just set to white)
sameliana:hover { border: 1px grey #a0a0a0; background-color: #dedede; }
sameliana:hover { border: 1px solid #a0a0a0; background-color: #dedede; }
MutantTurkeywhat does that do?
samelianin css
samelianinstead #archnavbar ul li a:hover { color: #999 !important; text-decoration: underline !important; }
MutantTurkeyyou lost me.
samelianreplace #archnavbar ul li a:hover { color: #999 !important; text-decoration: underline !important; }
samelian#archnavbar a:hover { border: 1px solid #a0a0a0; background-color: #dedede; }
MutantTurkeyI am not sure i like it this way. why the change?
samelianjust for fun :)
sameliancan be improved
MutantTurkeywell i think i have made enough progress for one day?
sameliani think so
MutantTurkeyI'd like to get the table working though first
samelianinstead working on libkupower i play with css :)
Xu_R_go samelian! :P
MutantTurkeyanyway I'm all done for the day.
MutantTurkeyI will leave my website running up for you guys so show kb9vqf if he comes back tonight
MutantTurkeyi maybe be able to hop on tonight.
MutantTurkeyor do you think i should mailing list this?
sameliannot yet
sameliani think we need to improbe a little the color scheme
MutantTurkeyi do not like white ad the background.
MutantTurkeyfor the top bar
MutantTurkeyanyway people can argue about colors all they want, the key is getting the website updated
samelianfor sure
MutantTurkeybecause the current one is a major turn off.
MutantTurkeyhow is anyone going to think of you as up to date if you are using a website from 1999?
MutantTurkeyAlright well i gotta split. heading over to a buddies to hang out.
MutantTurkeytalk to you later. and thanks for all the css help
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*kb9vqf doesn't care for the baby blue banner background on the website
*kb9vqf likes white much better
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StrangelvWhat would be a better color?
StrangelvMy guess is it was chosen as that's the legacy heraldic color we inherited
Strangelvpossibyl offtopic: could we get away with fixing the right ALT key for US keyboards?
Strangelv"or would that perturb someone at Canonical?
*Strangelv is tyring to get a graphical pattern for a project code named Kookaburra that he's been working on since last week around distractions and the non-vorking right alt is getting to be very, very annoying
Strangelv"Actualy, there's two vecrsions of teh pattern.  one of them is finished.  The second version isn'd done a week and a half later... need to be faster with the next one
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*Strangelv finally finds the hidden place in the hidden configuration applet he couldn't remember the name for that makes right alt work again
Strangelv"What if we put kcontrol back into the menuing system?
Strangelv"for *ubuntu?
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*Strangelv pondecrs how to rearrange KControl so that it's less unintuitive
Strangelv"The more I tihnk about it, the more it occurs to me that our core purpose is to provide teh most flexible and customizable desktop experience
StrangelvOr to take our calling from a GNOME developer who can't stand our product, 'never meet a user accessable control we don't like'
*Strangelv ponders logos that represent this. A can of modeling clay? a set of tinkertoys? a handheld mirror? colorful wooden blocks?
StrangelvThe Ubuntu provided KDE control panel hides too many controls
strowiping serghei?
samelianpong :)
strowiah, hi thx for your mails regarding the ebuilds (i'm Roman).
strowii got kdelibs compiled without avahi, still have a problem with the libdir on 64bit though.
samelianwhat kind of problem?
strowinot sure if its arts or kdelibs.. compiling  kdelibs with arts, seems to need /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libmcop.so.1, which is called ../lib64/.. that symlink is created after compilation of kdelibs.
samelianaha, i think is arts
samelianbut in arts' cmake is _tde_internal_setup_path( LIB_INSTALL_DIR       "${EXEC_INSTALL_PREFIX}/lib${LIB_SUFFIX}" )
strowieverything is installed in lib64, but it seems mcopidl looks in lib ( http://paste.pocoo.org/show/332524/ )
samelianis used LIB_SUFFIX
samelianyou set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to apropriate dir?
strowiwhere should i have set that?
strowioh.. hold on a second..
samelianstrowi: i think i found the problem
strowii didn't see the hardcoded MAKE_INSTALL_RPATH in kdelibs
samelianin ebuild
strowi${DEFAULT_ABI} should work
strowineed to fix that in all others ebuilds or still create the symlink..
samelianCMAKE_INSTALL_RPATH was I temporary workaround
samelianI think the better idea is to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH
samelian /I temporary/a temporary/
samelianstrowi: whay you mean
strowisry, is LD_LIBRARY_PATH the same as LDPATH?
sameliani'm not sure, I don't know what is LDPATH
samelianLD_LIBRARY_PATH is like PATH, but for libraries
strowiok, seems gentoo-specific...
strowi"I keep reading that LD_LIBRARY_PATH is insecure, and for gentoo env vars, it seems to only use LDPATH"
sameliani see
samelianin this case go to use LDPATH
strowiaddded to todo.
strowiok, that worked.;)
samelianvery well
samelianstrowi: you used my git repo for makink yours?
strowisamelian, yes
sameliani this is a bit outdated
samelianI think
*samelian can't type
strowihehe.. which one?
sameliangit diff show me a pretty long list :)
strowimhh.. can you push it, or send me a patch?
samelianthe most important I think is kdevelop
samelianstrowi: pushed
strowiif the diff is only new ebuild it can wait a little still need to work through the existing ones.
samelianstrowi: there is one more person who working on ebuilds
strowireally? who?
sameliana russian guy
samelianI think that would be good ideea to merge our efforts
samelianto avoid duplicate work
strowisure, didn't know there was anyone else..
strowido you have contact to him?
samelianhe appear here, from time to time
samelianbut he tell me that his english is not so good
samelianI think do not matter to much, me english is bad either :)
strowiwell, my russian is non-existant. So bad english es better than nothing.
samelianif you want, I will give you right to change the git repo started by me
strowithat would be nice, but i can't promise i won't mess up sth...
samelianno problem, my ebuild are ugly anyway :)
samelianyou have account on github?
strowijust found another problem... kde-config seems to be missing...
samelianbe sure that PATH are correctly set
strowiits not in kde/3.5/bin/
sameliankde-config is not in /usr/kde/3.5/bin ?
samelianare you sure?
strowiyes, only arts-files
sameliankdelibs are installed?
samelianhmm, strange
strowimaybe i messed sth up already.
samelianyou changed something in CMakeLists.txt?
strowionly the avahi-part.
samelianyes, I saw it in your git
samelian"qfile kde-config" do not return anything?
sameliantry to re-emerge kdelibs and check what happens with kde-config
strowialready running ebuild .. install
samelianok, ping me if you found something
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strowirehi samelian
samelianstrowi: you found something?
strowiwell.. i found my own mistake..
strowii added a src_install, but forgot to call cmake-utils_src_install *argh*
strowiso there was nothing installed from kdelibs.. as i said before, i am not that much of an portage-guru.
Strangelv"You're making far better headway than I would
strowisamelian, my github account is "strowi".
strowisamelian, how do you handle the Manifests? Do you merge them or rm/add them?
strowioh.. there must be an easier way.. maybe via post-update-hook..
samelianstrowi: I added you to github
strowisamelian, thx, i will still maintain my own overlay and push to yours as i have working versions and i see fit. if that is ok.
samelianfor sure
samelianwe are volunteers, after all :)
strowisamelian, do you want your distfiles added to the mirrorlist or should mine me the only one?
samelianexclude my host
samelianmaybe I will broke it
strowiok, will you update the distfiles? I have no idea how/where to get them..
samelianI make a lot experiments and is hard to keep is stabke
samelianfrom svn
samelianLadislav Laska (Krakonos) have write rights on my git repo too
samelianbut seems inactive
strowiuhh looks like lots of work to do..
samelianwhat do you mean?
samelianyou talk about svn?
strowii have to check how to make the packages from the svn and how/which directories to include...
samelianfollow my distfiles
strowiok, but first things first.. get a working version.;)
samelianhehe, ok
samelianif you have suggestions related to cmake, do not make patches for gentoo
samelianjust tell me, and I will commit it to svn
strowisamelian, understood, it was just the single avahi till now...
samelianok, I will incorporate it to my cmake files
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toxic_devilhi all
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MutantTurkeyhow is it going?
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I've emailed some guy who had a great article about Slackware and Trinity, asking him if we could include it on the improved website.
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MutantTurkeysamelian: hey man i need some formatting help D:
toxic_devil&#1072; &#1084;&#1085;&#1077; cmake &#1085;&#1091;&#1078;&#1077;&#1085; &#1085;&#1072; &#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1086;&#1081; &#1089;&#1086;&#1092;&#1090;
samelianhit me
MutantTurkeysamelian: what do i do with &lt;u&gt; 's?
MutantTurkeywhy did they get rid of that?
MutantTurkeyITS FUCKING annoying as hell.
MutantTurkeycss is great but.
MutantTurkeyseriously i don't want to define something for a single word.
samelianreplace &lt;u&gt; with &lt;em&gt;
toxic_devilsamelian: hm
MutantTurkeyem is underline?
samelianah, no
sameliani have no ideea
toxic_devilsamelian: cmake &#1091; &#1090;&#1077;&#1073;&#1103; &#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1100; &#1085;&#1072; &#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1086;&#1081; &#1089;&#1086;&#1092;&#1090;?
MutantTurkeyi feel like they got rid of it for no reason whatsoever
sameliani'm against text decoration, becaue is like a link
MutantTurkeychange for the sake of change
sameliantoxic_devil: i do not understand
samelianyou ask me what version for cmake i have?
toxic_devilwhen will complete porting to cmake?
sameliandepends what you understand with "complete"
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toxic_devil&#1084;&#1085;&#1077; &#1085;&#1091;&#1078;&#1077;&#1085; CMakeFilelist.txt &#1085;&#1072; &#1074;&#1089;&#1077; &#1087;&#1072;&#1082;&#1077;&#1090;&#1099;
samelianthere are all done packages: http://www.thel.ro/
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1072; &#1082;&#1086;&#1075;&#1076;&#1072; &#1101;&#1090;&#1086; &#1074;&#1089;&#1077; &#1074; svn &#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1077;&#1090;?
sameliani'm not sure
toxic_devil&#1074; &#1095;&#1077;&#1084; &#1085;&#1077; &#1091;&#1074;&#1077;&#1088;&#1077;&#1085;??
toxic_devil&#1087;&#1086;&#1095;&#1077;&#1084;&#1091; svn &#1074; &#1090;&#1072;&#1082;&#1086;&#1084; &#1087;&#1083;&#1072;&#1095;&#1077;&#1074;&#1085;&#1086;&#1084; &#1089;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1086;&#1103;&#1085;&#1080;&#1080;??
toxic_devil&#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1091; &#1074;&#1072;&#1089; &#1090;&#1072;&#1084; &#1074;&#1086;&#1086;&#1073;&#1096;&#1077; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1080;&#1089;&#1093;&#1086;&#1076;&#1080;&#1090;?
sameliani working on cmake port only in my spare time
samelianso, I do not know when will be ready
MutantTurkeysamelian: i can help probably
toxic_devil&#1074;&#1099; &#1080;&#1079;&#1074;&#1080;&#1085;&#1080;&#1090;&#1077; &#1082;&#1086;&#1085;&#1077;&#1095;&#1085;&#1086; &#1085;&#1086; &#1074;&#1099; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082; &#1090;&#1086; &#1085;&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;&#1072;&#1078;&#1077;&#1085;&#1085;&#1086; &#1088;&#1072;&#1073;&#1086;&#1090;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;&#1077;(((
sameliandon't worry, is obviosuly
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1089;&#1086;&#1073;&#1077;&#1088;&#1080;&#1090;&#1077; &#1074;&#1089;&#1077; &#1092;&#1072;&#1081;&#1083;&#1099; &#1080; &#1079;&#1072;&#1082;&#1072;&#1095;&#1072;&#1081;&#1090;&#1077; &#1085;&#1072; svn
toxic_devil[20:36:30] &lt;megabaks&gt;
toxic_devilĽNote: these tarballs contain ONLY cmake related files (not trinity sources).
toxic_devil&#1087;&#1083;&#1103; - &#1076;&#1072; &#1091; &#1085;&#1077;&#1075;&#1086; &#1074;&#1089;&#1105; &#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1100; &#1091;&#1078;&#1077; - &#1090;&#1086;&#1083;&#1100;&#1082;&#1086; &#1087;&#1091;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1080; &#1085;&#1072; &#1089;&#1074;&#1085; &#1080; &#1074;&#1089;&#1105;!
toxic_devilĽNote: these tarballs contain ONLY cmake related files (not trinity sources).
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1087;&#1086;&#1085;&#1080;&#1084;&#1072;&#1077;&#1096;&#1100;?
samelianthe cmake files are not ready to be commited to svn
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1079;&#1072;&#1082;&#1072;&#1095;&#1072;&#1081; &#1092;&#1072;&#1081;&#1083;&#1099; &#1093;&#1086;&#1090;&#1100; &#1082;&#1091;&#1076;&#1072; &#1085;&#1080;&#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1100;
toxic_devil&#1088;&#1072;&#1079; &#1074;&#1088;&#1077;&#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080; &#1085;&#1077;&#1090;
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1085;&#1086; &#1085;&#1077; &#1075;&#1086;&#1090;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;?
sameliani think the cmake files will be change too often
samelianand I do not want to flood svn wil a lot small changes
sameliancan be annoying for other kde developers
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1074;&#1099; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1076;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100;&#1089;&#1103; &#1085;&#1077; &#1084;&#1086;&#1078;&#1077;&#1090;&#1077; &#1084;&#1077;&#1078;&#1076;&#1091; &#1089;&#1086;&#1073;&#1086;&#1081;?
samelianthis is not problem, the problem is that I have a rule to not commit unfinished work to svn
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1091; &#1090;&#1077;&#1073;&#1103; &#1087;&#1088;&#1072;&#1074;&#1080;&#1083;&#1086;?
toxic_devil&#1072; &#1085;&#1072;&#1084; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;??
toxic_devil&#1082;&#1072;&#1082; &#1089;&#1086;&#1073;&#1080;&#1088;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;?
toxic_devil&#1089;&#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1081;&#1090;&#1077; &#1085;&#1086;&#1088;&#1084;&#1072;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1091;&#1102; &#1080;&#1085;&#1089;&#1090;&#1088;&#1091;&#1082;&#1094;&#1080;&#1102; &#1087;&#1086; &#1089;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1082;&#1077;
samelianat this moment you can use my distfiles
samelianor you can help to make more cmake files :)
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1091; &#1090;&#1077;&#1073;&#1103; &#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1100; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086;-&#1085;&#1080;&#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1100; &#1085;&#1072;&#1087;&#1086;&#1076;&#1086;&#1073;&#1080;&#1077; &#1080;&#1085;&#1089;&#1090;&#1088;&#1091;&#1082;&#1094;&#1080;&#1080; &#1087;&#1086; &#1089;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1082;&#1077;?
toxic_devil&#1090;&#1086;&#1075;&#1076;&#1072; &#1084;&#1099; help &#1090;&#1077;&#1073;&#1077;
toxic_devil&#1085;&#1091; &#1086;&#1073;&#1080;&#1076;&#1085;&#1086;
toxic_devildebian &#1080; ubuntu &#1089;&#1088;&#1072;&#1079;&#1091; &#1089;&#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1083;&#1080; &#1076;&#1077;&#1073; &#1087;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;&#1099; &#1072; &#1085;&#1072;&#1084; &#1092;&#1080;&#1075;
samelianthis is because deb are using autotools instead cmake
samelianI won't using autotools for ebuilds
toxic_devil&#1087;&#1086;&#1095;&#1077;&#1084;&#1091; &#1076;&#1083;&#1103; &#1073;&#1072;&#1079;&#1099; &#1084;&#1086;&#1078;&#1085;&#1086;, &#1072; &#1076;&#1083;&#1103; pim &#1085;&#1072;&#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1088; &#1085;&#1077;&#1090;?
sameliankdepim is partial comleted, only kmail are ported
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1072; &#1082;&#1086;&#1075;&#1076;&#1072; &#1075;&#1086;&#1090;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086; &#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1077;&#1090;?
sameliani can't be sure, because I working on other projects too
samelianright now I have't time to continue cmake
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1072; &#1087;&#1086;&#1095;&#1077;&#1084;&#1091; &#1090;&#1099; &#1086;&#1076;&#1080;&#1085; &#1101;&#1090;&#1080;&#1084; &#1079;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1084;&#1072;&#1077;&#1096;&#1100;&#1089;&#1103;
sameliani have no ideea, because nobody won't help me? :))
toxic_devil&#1085;&#1072; &#1074;&#1072;&#1089; &#1082;&#1090;&#1086;-&#1090;&#1086; &#1078;&#1072;&#1074;&#1080;&#1090; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1083;&#1080;?
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1077;&#1089;&#1083;&#1080; &#1076;&#1072;&#1096; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1088; &#1095;&#1077;&#1075;&#1086;-&#1085;&#1080;&#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1100;, &#1090;&#1086; &#1103; &#1086;&#1090; &#1090;&#1077;&#1073;&#1103; &#1086;&#1090;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;&#1091;
samelianplease rephrase, i do not understand
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1052;&#1099; &#1085;&#1077; &#1084;&#1086;&#1078;&#1077;&#1084; &#1078;&#1076;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;
toxic_devil&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;&#1080; &#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1077;&#1090;&#1077; &#1090;&#1072;&#1082; &#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;
toxic_devil&#1074;&#1072;&#1096; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1077;&#1082;&#1090; &#1091;&#1084;&#1088;&#1077;&#1090;
samelianin this case, you can help it to survive :)
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1090;&#1072;&#1082;
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1076;&#1072;&#1074;&#1072;&#1081; &#1074;&#1089;&#1077; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1091; &#1090;&#1103; &#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1100;
samelianeveryting is on www.thel.ro, this my website
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1085;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100; &#1077;&#1096;&#1077; &#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1100;?
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MutantTurkeyWho else here is making an attempt to do trinity on arch? someone posted to the mailing list again? nattyice something at gmail.com
samelianMutantTurkey: if i'm not wrong, David C. Rankin
MutantTurkeywhat is his nickname on the irc?
sameliani'm not sure that is active on irc
MutantTurkeyyeah i need to ask him what he has done so far.
samelianright now, he trying to build kdebase
sameliancheck on mailing list my discussion with him
MutantTurkeyokay I will.
MutantTurkeydid he build all the other stuff like tqt-interface and such?
sameliani guess
MutantTurkeyhe definitely was doing it wrong. didn't even patch qt3 so i dunno
MutantTurkeysamelian: is it bad to use the &lt;br&gt; tag?
sameliansometimes can be used
samelianbut most of times you do something wrong if you need &lt;br&gt;
MutantTurkeyi need to format that specificially for new lines. so i forced a br
MutantTurkeylook at the source
MutantTurkeyis that okay?
sameliani think you can use &lt;p&gt; for each line
samelian&lt;p&gt;deb http://ppa.quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/trinity/trinity/ubuntu maverick main&lt;/p&gt;
samelianwhy not
MutantTurkeythe would result in excess spacing
MutantTurkeyi just need a line break.
MutantTurkeywhy not just &lt;br&gt; (break)
samelianyou can style &lt;p&gt;
MutantTurkeywouldn't that make more sense?
MutantTurkeywhat is wrong with &lt;br&gt; /
samelianmaybe you want to indent a little the text
MutantTurkeyit is supported in HTML5 and does exactly what i need it to.
MutantTurkeyI already have it indented 20px. there is a "subsection"
samelianactually for code i suggest to use &lt;pre&gt;
samelianyou don't need to keep &lt;br&gt; in &lt;pre&gt;
samelian&lt;pre&gt; preserve the text exactly
samelianincluding new lines and spaces
samelianyes, very nice
samelianjust unindent the code
MutantTurkeywell i kind of like it.
MutantTurkeyI'd rather actually do like a text box
MutantTurkeyfor code
MutantTurkeywith a different color
samelian&lt;pre&gt; support styles, of course
MutantTurkeyfor example
MutantTurkeythey have a text area for code
samelianyou can style &lt;pre&gt; as a &lt;div&gt;
MutantTurkeyso &lt;div id="code"&gt; then &lt;pre&gt; in it?
samelian&lt;pre class="code"&gt;
samelianfor example
MutantTurkeyoh :D
MutantTurkeyso that makes it act as a div?
samelianof couse
sameliansort of
samelianany container can be styled like a div
MutantTurkeyoh alright
samelianin css, pre.code
samelianpretty well
samelianjust last line is wrong
samelian&lt;/pre&gt; must be exactly after .....eps/ubuntu maverick main
MutantTurkeyright okay
samelianbecause &lt;pre&gt; preserve all line separators
MutantTurkeyalso how do i make it not go the full width?
samelianin css
samelianwidth: 70%
MutantTurkeywould that work for all scenerios?
sameliani think
MutantTurkeyno it won't
MutantTurkeybecause if you have a really small screen it will not wrap the whole text
sameliantry width: 10%
sameliani'm curios if &lt;pre&gt; will be enlarged automatically if the text cannot fit
sameliantry this
samelianremove width
samelianan put
MutantTurkeylike this guy has it: http://projectcerbera.com/web/articles/code-in-pre
samelianhmm, actually you need a fixed size of code container
samelianothwerwise will look ugly
MutantTurkeyto the specific size of the code?
samelianfixed in pixels
MutantTurkeyD: i thought that was not reccomende
samelianwill be ugly when the code will have different length
MutantTurkeydid you see that link?
samelianyes, what you look for?
MutantTurkeytheir code box works how i would like it too
sameliani'm not so sure
samelianhis box is narrow because the column is narrow
*K`zan has joined #trinity-desktop
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sameliankb9vqf: i don't know if you read about my question related to return values
samelianwe have two methods to return results
samelianbool TClientPrivate::enumerateDevices(QValueList&lt;TDevice&gt; &amp;devices)
samelianand QValueList&lt;TDevice&gt; TClient::enumerateDevices(bool *ok)
kb9vqfWhat's the question?
samelianwhich of them you preffer?
samelianin first case, we can include it easy in if
samelianlike if(client-&gt;enumerateDevices(devices))
kb9vqfI like the first case
samelianthe second one seems easy to understand
kb9vqfIt is closer to existing methods in Trinity
kb9vqfMany Qt/Trinity methods return a bool error status
kb9vqfI haven't seen anything like the second case within Trinity
samelianso, this must be standard and I need to folow it
kb9vqfConsistency is good :)
kb9vqfUnless there is a very good reason not to
*kb9vqf doesn't like bool pointers anyway
samelianyes, for consistency reason i bother you :)
kb9vqfNo bother :)
sameliankb9vqf: also, maybe you have another ideea about signaling errors
samelianATM i implement it like this:
samelianI send an error() signal
samelianand the receiver of signal check for sender-&gt;lastError();
samelianhmm, I just observed that this can be a problem in a concurent environment
kb9vqfUsually errors are handled via a return type of int
kb9vqfThe int value encodes an error type which is specified in an enum
samelianin dbus environment will not be possibile to do this
kb9vqfThen emit() the int error value
kb9vqfThe receiver can check the int value and determine the error
samelianyou can't encode as int something like "Method "EnumerateDevices1" with signature "" on interface "org.freedesktop.UPower" doesn't exist"
kb9vqfYou can also emit() an int and a QString
samelianyes, this can be a better ideea
kb9vqftogether that is
samelianalso, I want to know from where come the error
kb9vqfTechnically you can emit() as many objects as you like
samelianthe same error can come from TClient or TDevice
kb9vqfSo emit() a device type as well
kb9vqfJust make sure that that is an int or other machine parsable value
kb9vqfStrings are not reliably machine-parsable
kb9vqfThey are only there to help the human operator ;-)
samelianactually my intention is to help humans
samelianis very unpleasant when an application just not working, without a clue for what reason is not working
samelianan example is knetworkmanager
kb9vqfMy point is:
kb9vqfemit() both human and machine readable values
kb9vqfNot just one or the other
kb9vqfFor every int there should be a QString
kb9vqfcontaining the error description
sameliani'm not sure if machine readable value can be used for anything
kb9vqfError handling/suppression
kb9vqfSpurious errors do happen
kb9vqfOr errors that are irrelevant in the current context
samelianthe error will be emitted asynchronously
kb9vqfBut the watching program could theoretically ignore an error that it deems irrelevant
samelianlook, i imagine something like this:
samelianif(enumerateDevices(devices)) qWarning("We have a problem, handle it");
samelianemit error("Method call 'EnumerateDevices' failed with unknown error.");
samelianthe slot connected to error() will show an message box to user
kb9vqfI wouild like to have an int there as well
samelianto inform him about what happens
kb9vqfso emit error(-1, "Unknown error")'
kb9vqfError codes are GOOD
kb9vqfFor the developer and for client applications
samelianI agree, but when can be encoded
samelianmost of errors come from sbus
kb9vqfDoes DBUS ONLY return error strings?
kb9vqfOr does it also return an error code?
sameliandbus return an QDBusError
samelianbut i'm not sure that dbus errors are relevant in other context than dbus
sameliandbus error code have no meaning in applications
kb9vqfMy thought is: let the application developer determine what has meaning
kb9vqfGive them as much information as possible
kb9vqfEven a semi-random error code will aid debugging
kb9vqfIf it is unique
kb9vqfThe application can always ignore the error code
samelianyes, of course
kb9vqfOtherwise we start telling app developers what they can and cannot use, and that sounds very familiar from KDE4
samelianok, I will think about int encoding and how to do it useful
samelianI can emit directly QDBusError
samelianbut the insulation from dbus will be compromitted
sameliankb9vqf: you know, qt4 dbus API is very different from qt3 dbus API?
samelianok, in this case I will delegate low level calls to private class
samelianwill be TClientPrivate_qt4.cpp
samelianand TClientPrivate_qt3.cpp
kb9vqfGet qt3 working, then qt4
samelianof course
samelianactually i can't test qt4 version atm
*kb9vqf may have to add the Qt3 DBUS API to TQt
kb9vqfI know at least knetworkmanager uses it
kb9vqfIt may just be easier to handle it with TQt
*kb9vqf is not sure ATM
samelianok, will see later
sameliani will isolate anyway dbus api callcs
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: doing alot of work on the website still.
kb9vqfJust so you know, I really, really hate the light baby blue background ;-)
kb9vqfSome other color maybe?
MutantTurkeyD: which one?
kb9vqfThe one in the header background
samelianbleah, I have a problem with bool method(&amp;result)
MutantTurkeyI just have it for the purpose of showing what a color would look like.
kb9vqfOK; I do prefer white
kb9vqfBut that can be changed later
samelianfor things like QString TClient::daemonVersion()
MutantTurkeyokay I'll show you now
kb9vqfsamelian: What's the problem?
samelianfor consistency, i must to use bool TClient::daemonVersion(QString &amp;result)
samelianbut seems unnatural
kb9vqfThere's another way to handle that
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay it is a white background now.
kb9vqfUsually you can return a null QString when there's an error
kb9vqfThat's the way Trinity usually does things anyway
kb9vqfNote that a null QString is NOT an empty QString
samelianbut null qstring can meaning that there is no value
samelianyes, know
kb9vqfSee above ;-)
samelian"" is empty
kb9vqfThere's your "no value" string
samelianQString::null i guess is null
kb9vqfOr QString()
kb9vqfI vastly prefer QString()
samelianbut the consistency will be affected anyway
kb9vqfNo, not really
sameliani will must to do
kb9vqfTrinity has always done this :)
samelianQString result = client-&gt;daemonVersion()
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Much better, thanks!
samelianif(result.isNull()) qWarning("we have a problem")
kb9vqfIf you look through the code that type of if() is all over the place
kb9vqfisNull means there is no sane answer available
samelianbut, i have another situation
samelianwhich is bool
samelianfalse ca meaning error or not support for hibernate
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Now just add in the release sidebar on the right.  It's looking much better than before!
kb9vqfsamelian: Use an int
kb9vqf-1 being the error
kb9vqf0 is false
kb9vqf1 is ture
samelianhmm, too many inconsistencies
kb9vqfOnce again that's how Trinity code usually handles things
samelianif(isnull), if(-1), if(method())
kb9vqfPassing by reference is not used often
kb9vqftechnically -1 should always be the error case
kb9vqfNever 0
kb9vqfSo you have if(isnull), if(&lt;0)
kb9vqfThose are the two error cases
kb9vqfBool is usually not returned
kb9vqfusually it is only an int return value for error
kb9vqfThere are too many problems with bool
samelianthis is for plain C, but i'm not sure about C++
kb9vqfC++ still uses int return values for errors
kb9vqfA defacto Linux standard is that a negative return is an error
kb9vqfThe only problem is that you cannot have a negative QString
kb9vqfOnly a Null one :-)
samelianand isNull is bool type
kb9vqfUnfortuantely that inconsistency runs deep within Qt
kb9vqfNo way to change it
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yes i need to figure that out after dinner.
MutantTurkeyalso the side bar will include links and such to web pages
kb9vqfSounds good MutantTurkey
samelianis pretty bad to use something like if(1 == client-&gt;hasHibernate())
samelianthe programmers will assume that hasHibernate is bool
sameliani will made a big mistake if will use if(hasHibernate())
samelianbecause error will treated as true
kb9vqfWill it?
samelianthey will*
*kb9vqf goes to look up implicit bool conversion
MutantTurkeyI am also renaming and reorginizing the structure.
kb9vqfsamelian: Seems you are correct
*kb9vqf is not sure how to handle that
*samelian hate to made this kind of design decisions :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: everything is a php file and i am consolidating stuff also. one question, is the mailing list generated in php?
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: No
kb9vqfOld script-type stuff
MutantTurkeyezmlm? okay well how could we include the header and footer then?
kb9vqfI'll have to work on the integration from this end
kb9vqfIt's a very complicated system
MutantTurkeyokay. they are just in media/header.php and media/footer.php for them.
kb9vqfSounds good
MutantTurkeyI need to get screenshots also, if someone has ones they'd like me to use.
kb9vqfSame with the SVN patches, etc.
kb9vqfWell, there are the two from the Ubuntu CDs
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yeah, :/ (which by the way should be reverse sorted)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: are those good to use?
kb9vqfGo ahead
kb9vqfI can make some Debian ones as well
MutantTurkeyI'll make thumbnails and such in a while.
kb9vqfSometime.... :)
MutantTurkeythe home page is going to be pretty much the 3.5.12 annoucements, a brief introduction links and t he sidebar thing.
MutantTurkeyokay great. I'm off to eat dinner. I'll work more after
kb9vqfsamelian: For simple queries such as hasHibernate just return false if there was an error
kb9vqfIf such a simple query failed then we cannot assume a complex function like hibernate will work
kb9vqfThe underlying DBUS failure would be caught somewhere else
samelianbut the user must be announced that hibernate query is not working, but is not because his machine
kb9vqfThen you cannot have a bool return
kb9vqfOr anything that looks like a bool
samelianmaybe libkpower have no rights to read upower dbus
kb9vqfJust state: This is an int return
kb9vqfIn the documentation put a warning that if(hasHibernate) will not work
kb9vqfand that if(hasHibernate == 1) is required
kb9vqfThat's the only way to handle it
samelianhehe, we assume that programmer will read the docs carefully
kb9vqfWe have to
kb9vqfYou can screw up a lot of things with implicit bool conversion
kb9vqfI know!
kb9vqfQt4 locks out implicit bool conversion
kb9vqfJust do the same thing in your class
samelianmaybe is better to use bool method(bool * ok), after all
kb9vqfSee above :)
kb9vqfWe can prohibit the implicit converson
*kb9vqf forgot until now
kb9vqfSo the compiler will emit an error message, and the programmer will change it to == 1
samelianaha, you want to forbid using if(hasHibernate())
sameliani'm not sure if is possible
kb9vqfIt is
kb9vqfQt4 does it
samelianbool is pretty same as int
kb9vqfIn qbytearray
sameliani will check it
kb9vqfBasically you make the bool() operator private
kb9vqfYou will probably have to make yourself a return type class
kb9vqfMake bool() private
kb9vqfbut allow int()
kb9vqfSeems simple enough to me :)(
samelianbut if() will not try to use int as condition?
samelianor I cand define something like this:
sameliantypedef { Has = 1 } TypeHas
samelianTypeHas hasHibernate()
kb9vqfActually, if will try to use the int for condition only when if(return == 1) is used
sameliani see
kb9vqfWhen if runs into the private bool it will halt the compilation
samelianok, I will try to forbid bool conversion
kb9vqfThat should do it :)
samelianthe inconsistency remain with int enumerateDevices(deviceList)
kb9vqfHow so?
samelianis not the same with hasHibernate()
samelianalso, we have double voltage()
kb9vqfvoltage() cannot be negative
kb9vqfThat's easy :)
samelianbut power() can
*kb9vqf doesn't like that
sameliancharge are positive, uncharge negative
kb9vqfI know, but...
kb9vqfThe assumption is negative values are errors
samelianyes, but in this case is a valid value
kb9vqfHow's this:
kb9vqfWe have a special return class
kb9vqfIt contains both the value, and an error code and error string
kb9vqfMaybe it even has the convenience function success()
kb9vqfso you return TDBUSError
kb9vqfthe application does if(tdbe.success())
kb9vqfso you return TDBUSReturn
kb9vqfthe application does if(tdbr.success())
kb9vqfBetter yet, the implicit int() operator returns the value
kb9vqfJust a thought
samelianand value must be overloaded
samelianint value()
sameliandouble value()
kb9vqfWell, that won't work
kb9vqfhang on
kb9vqfT value
kb9vqfso KDBUSReturn&lt;float&gt;
kb9vqfor KDBUSReturn&lt;int&gt;
kb9vqfthen T value() returns the value
samelianbut what about KDBUSReturn&lt;QValueList&lt;TDevices&gt; &gt; value ? :)
kb9vqfThat's OK
kb9vqfJust a but ugly
samelianwe enter to template hell :)
kb9vqfBut we've been through most of the other "solutions"
kb9vqfIt's either consistent or template hell :)
kb9vqfinconsistent, rather
samelianso, we must choose something unnatural, but consistent
kb9vqfand for most things consistent is OK
samelianlike bool hasHibernate(QString &amp;result)
samelianbool hasHibernate(bool &amp;result)
kb9vqfI HATE that reference to bool
kb9vqfI can see all kinds of nastiness
kb9vqfhard to trace problems, etc.
samelianmaybe for pointers
samelianreferences are pretty easy to trace
kb9vqfOK, here's the naieve programmer's take on that
kb9vqfreturn hasHibernate(bool error);
kb9vqfSpot the problem?
samelianthis is pretty weird call
kb9vqfHint: it'll crash badly :)
kb9vqfWell, my thought is this:
kb9vqfThe application developer may just ignore the error
kb9vqfNot want to deal with it
kb9vqfBut the function DEMANDS a reference
kb9vqfSo the easiest way to deal with that demand is the call I posted
kb9vqfBut it'll crash or not compile, depending on the exact C compiler
samelianbut this call is completely useless
samelianreturn hasHibernate(bool error);
samelianbecause hasHibenate is defined like this
kb9vqfOK, wait
kb9vqfI think I flipped the two
samelianbool hasHibernate( bool &amp;result )
kb9vqfYour definition may work
kb9vqfBut it's unnatural
samelianyes, as i said :)
kb9vqfI expect hasHibernate to tell me if it can hibernate, not if there was an error
samelianbut is the single easy and consistent option
kb9vqfI can see lots of confusion as a result
samelianyes, you right
kb9vqfLet's go with the template return type
kb9vqfFinal decision :)
samelianbleah, is really ugly :)
kb9vqfAt least that one will throw compilation errors instead of malfunctioning
samelianlike this KDBUSReturn&lt;QValueList&lt;TDevices&gt; &gt;
kb9vqfI've seen that
kb9vqfIn kdepim
samelianand kdepim is very unstable
kb9vqfYou can make it prettier like this:
samelianand very hard to trace segfault
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kb9vqftypedef KDBUSDeviceListReturn KDBUSReturn&lt;QValueList&lt;TDevices&gt;&gt;
sameliani think &gt;&gt; will not work
samelian&gt;&gt; is not shift?
kb9vqfYou can nest templates
samelianmust be &gt; &gt;
samelianwith space between &gt;
kb9vqfYes of course
*kb9vqf didn't hit the spacebar hard enough
kb9vqfIt's even harder to trace a logic error
kb9vqfIf you expect hasHibernate to return whether something can hibernate
kb9vqfand it returns an error status instead
kb9vqfAt least with the segfault you get a backtrace
samelianthen bool hasHibernate(bool *ok)
Borg^Queenhello humans, AIs and others
kb9vqfAnd there's my bad call I posted above
samelianbool hasHibernate(bool *ok = NULL)
samelianif ok is null, i will return no error
kb9vqfInstant segfault :)
sameliani will check it
kb9vqfOh wait, you changed the reference
MutantTurkeyBorg^Queen: o/
kb9vqfto a pointer
samelianif is null, no error
kb9vqfI still see this bad code as a first attempt:
kb9vqfbool * error;
kb9vqfbool canHibernate = hasHibernate(error);;
kb9vqfbool canHibernate = hasHibernate(&amp;error);
kb9vqfI don't know
samelianthe elegant solution can be try { bool hibernate = hasHibernate() } catch(...) { qWarning("we have a problem") }
samelianbut qt do not use exceptions :|
kb9vqfI still like the templates
kb9vqfSeems to be consistant and flexible
kb9vqfHonestly there's much less chance of a stray segfault when passing objects around
kb9vqfReferences and pointers have their place, but when the return type is so small I think they are more trouble than they are worth
samelianyou proposed a pretty good solution like if(success())
samelianor if(error())
kb9vqfNow think of multithreading though
kb9vqfThe operation should be atomic
kb9vqfAnd those are not
samelianyes, is not
kb9vqfI vote for templates and typedefs
kb9vqfIt becomes very simple then
samelianok, i'm without good solution, so, I agree with you :)
*kb9vqf goes back to troubleshooting mouse events
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MutantTurkeysamelian: :) got it working nicely
MutantTurkeyit wraps lines (in this case not so well because it wraps based on words and the url is parsed as one word
kb9vqfThat background color is much nicer than the blue as well ;-)
MutantTurkeyagain, that is all for later.
Borg^QueenMutantTurkey: cute nick
MutantTurkeyBorg^Queen: thank you ma'am
*samelian forgot how to create a C++ template :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: does Trinity have any color scheme associated with it? i mean ubuntu has shit brown, fedora i think red. etc
kb9vqfNot right now
kb9vqfOther than the blue in the logo
kb9vqfAnd white
sameliankb9vqf: help me a little with template, if you can
sameliantemplate&lt;class T&gt;
samelianclass TValue {
samelianT &amp;operator() { return m_value; }
samelianint error() const { return m_error; }
samelianQString errorString() { return m_errorString; }
samelianT m_value;
samelianint m_error;
samelianQString m_errorString;
samelianI think my operator() is not well defined
samelianthe compiller cry
samelianUPower_TValue.h:38: error: function definition does not declare parameters
kb9vqfWhich one is line 38?
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samelianT &amp;operator() { return m_value; }
kb9vqfWell you can't do it that way
kb9vqfWhat are you trying to do with that line?
kb9vqfReturn the value?
samelianreference to m_value
samelianfor automatic cast
sameliani want to do this:
kb9vqfTry &amp;T() {return m_value}
samelianTValue val = hasHibernate()
samelianif(val) qWarning("we have hibernate");
samelian&amp;T() is not working
samelian ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'T' with no type
kb9vqfWhat happens without the &amp;
kb9vqfSo T() {return m_value}
*kb9vqf does not recall if this can be done with templates
sameliani think this is constructor of T
kb9vqfT is the type
kb9vqfTValue() is the constructor
samelianbut it T is class, T() is constructor of class
kb9vqfFor builtin types you can do bool() {return a_bool}
kb9vqfHang on
samelianQString cast to const char* with operator()
kb9vqfconst char * is special
kb9vqfTrust me :)
kb9vqfTry operator T () { return m_value; }
kb9vqfOr operator &amp;T () { return m_value; }
kb9vqf^^ I don't know if that last one is the correct syntax though
kb9vqfThe first one should be correct
kb9vqfRemember that pass-by-reference can be dangerous
kb9vqfYou may just want to pass the object itself
kb9vqfi.e. a copy
samelianfor sure, I will not return reference
MutantTurkeyare there Debian CD images with Trinity pre loaded
MutantTurkeyor is that only kubuntu
kb9vqfSomeone was working on a Debian CD but I don't think it's finished
kb9vqfSee the trinity-devel mailing list archives IIRC
sameliankb9vqf: seems that &amp;operator T() { return m_value; } is correct way
kb9vqfI was wondering about that
*kb9vqf has not had to do that for a long time
MutantTurkeyhttp:// all finished.
kb9vqfMay I suggest that the header logo say "Trinity Desktop Environment" instead of just "Trinity"?
kb9vqfOtherwise, ignoring the missing right hand side box, it looks good!
kb9vqfErr..I guess on the installation page there is no right hand side box
kb9vqfSo it's fine as-is then, execpt the header suggestion :)
MutantTurkeywell okay with the header, the reason to keep it shorter is A) we already say Trinity Desktop Environment on the home page as the first header B) it scales better. smaller icon = better for all sized monitors because it can scale down without pushing the list of links out of the way. C) the word trinity isn't even needed really, it could just be the icon.
MutantTurkeyi took alot of time to think about that one.
kb9vqfWell, (and this is just a suggestion, as I did NOT take lots of time to think it through):
kb9vqfWe could say Trinity Desktop Environment on the top and just shorten it to Trinity on the front page
kb9vqfAlso, people may wonder what "Trinity" is just by itself
kb9vqfe.g. if Google points them straight at the install page
MutantTurkeyyes especially since the front page is actually going to start with an image of the desktop, and under neath say "3.5.12 is out!" and list improvements under that
MutantTurkeyeverything else, will be pushed away.
MutantTurkeyworking on this one now
kb9vqfI like the overall site layout much better
MutantTurkeyI need a list of mirrors to add to the working around the problem (i assume we have more than one)
kb9vqfI'll handle that
kb9vqfI have an internal list here that I can insert automatically ;-)
kb9vqfThanks again for fixing up the site
kb9vqfIt looks a heap side better
MutantTurkeyI am really enjoying this tbh. I have been avoiding the web for a long time.
MutantTurkeyso getting back into it is fun.
kb9vqfGreat :)
MutantTurkeyagain, people like clean and simple, easy to navigate. that is crucial. Hopefully this will help sort that all out.
MutantTurkeyif people like the site, they are more likely to take TrinityDE seriously.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: i am changing all references of your email address to our mailing list page instead.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: also sorry, i know your AFK. but I am pretty much done work for tonight. I have converted the lenny 301 page and install page so thats good for today. I'll keep working on it probably monday (tomorrow is very very hectic with band practice and church and super bowl (go steelers!) so I won't be able to do much till then)
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MutantTurkeyhey Piki
MutantTurkeyPiki: what does the top logo say?
MutantTurkeyi am getting a weird problem from it
Pikiit's a KDE gear with a T instead of a K, and it says Trinity next to it
MutantTurkeyhmmmm. now look at:
MutantTurkeyI am calling that image but only Trinity shows up D:
MutantTurkeyoh nevermind, It was a CSS issue.
PikiTrinity Desktop Environment
Pikia bit slow, kvirc isn't allowing me to click links for some reason
MutantTurkeykvirc is a bit slow for my liking.
MutantTurkeya bit to complicated for just an irc client.
MutantTurkeyirssi is just easier for me to use.
Pikia don't like doing things in a CLI, and a konsole is a bit small for IRC for my liking
Pikimuch prefer konversation, but our repos are still a dependency mess
MutantTurkeypidgin works for me also, because i have google chat as well as AIM and IRC
MutantTurkeywould a Pidgin to Qt Port be favorable?
Pikidon't really like the way pidgin does irc
MutantTurkeyyeah It's a bit meh.
MutantTurkeybut a Trinity version of pidgin would be nice. Qt lacks a good messanging program right?
PikiMutantTurkey: considering how popular pidgin is, i'd say it'd be a good idea
MutantTurkeyyeah. I've looked at the code base not to bad.
MutantTurkeyIt is a glib and gnome mess though
Pikibut that requires kde
MutantTurkeywe'd have to clean it up.
Pikii'm using kopete right now, rather nice, but apparently the kde4 version doesn't do irc, and the kde3 version doesn't do file transfer
MutantTurkeyanyway I've gotta split some buds are coming over.
Pikii have it setup from gtalk and aim
MutantTurkeywe can hack in IRC or something.
MutantTurkeyI'll be back later. or monday
BQ-AFKgn to all
sameliankb9vqf: so far, template based responses working as expected
Xu_Rsamelian: making good progress, I see. :)
Xu_Rgo samelian! we're rooting for ya! :D
samelianunfortunately, because i'm busy with dbus stuff, cmake port stalling
Pikii'll hopefully be rooting android at some point
Xu_Rsamelian: well, I'm getting stalled on the RPM stuff right now too, so we're about the same :P
Xu_RI hate real-life doings. xD
Pikii'm still stalled on packaging tde here
Xu_Rsamelian: see, I'll even convince my bot to root for you.
Xu_Rif I can get my bot to say something xD
PikiXu_R: eggdrop with some tcl scripts ;-)
[lindaemon]Go samelian!
Xu_Rthere we go :P
Xu_Rjust gotta love supybot, it's the best IRC bot eva :D
samelianI think I need some sleep :)
sameliangn all
PikiXu_R: you like soupy stuff
Xu_Rwiat... you're +2 right samelian?
Xu_Rgod damn, go to sleep samelian! no overworking! XD
Xu_RPiki: maybe. xD
Pikii don't really like eggs, but i loved my grandmother's eggdrop soup ;-)
Xu_RPiki: GAH. One minute BQ-AFK is on #unitylinux, next minute she's gone. damn lurker.
*Xu_R notes to self to kick her the next time she gets on IRC
PikiXu_R: go in #arklinux and type "? xu_r" (include the space, not the quotes)
Xu_RPiki: I saw, don't worry. I've been in there even after you banned me from there. XD To be exact, maybe like a day after.
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PikiLOL just found a video where a couple 5 yo girls steal a car from a guy with a broken leg and run over his legs
*kb9vqf doesn't think that's very funny
Pikikb9vqf: eh? you know it's not real, right?
kb9vqfNo I didn't
kb9vqfThanks for clarifying :)
Pikiwell, how can a couple 5yo's steal a car?
kb9vqfI dunno
kb9vqfGuy left the car on and in drive?
kb9vqfAnyway, getting waaayy off topic here ;-)
Pikithen how do the girls get the gas?
kb9vqfAnother Qt4 bug I wonder?
kb9vqfQt automatically grabs the mouse when a mouse button is pressed inside a widget; the widget will continue to receive mouse events until the last mouse button is released.
kb9vqfThat's not what I see :-P
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Svedrinhey there... I'm currently mirroring trinity for debian squeeze here: http://debmirror.funzt-halt.net/
Svedrinif anyone wants to use the mirror, feel free
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edakirihow can the font system (and fontconfig?) be told to find typefaces which are newly copied into share/fonts/ ?
edakirirestarting once again.
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*Strangelv has never gotten fonts to work that aren't installed to his user directory
Strangelv"Thu system level save has, as best I can tell, never worked, all the way back to 5.04
Strangelv"for Kubuntu
Strangelv"Can't recall my mileage with Libranet/Debian.  It's been too long, but I don't remember having gotten it to work there, either
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edakiriDoes trinity work in combination with Debian sid/unstable?
edakiriI'll let you know.
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TokRatoxic_devil :)
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1074;&#1077;&#1090;
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1103; &#1089;&#1082;&#1086;&#1088;&#1086; &#1088;&#1077;&#1073;&#1103;&#1090;&#1072; &#1091;&#1073;&#1100;&#1102;&#1090;(((
TokRa&#1047;&#1072; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086;? :)
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1089;&#1072;&#1084;&#1077;&#1083;&#1080;&#1072;&#1085; cmake &#1085;&#1077; &#1076;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;(((
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toxic_devil&#1072; &#1082;&#1076;&#1077; &#1074;&#1099;&#1087;&#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1080;&#1083;&#1080; &#1074;&#1077;&#1088;&#1089;&#1080;&#1080; 4.6
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toxic_devil&#1058;&#1040;&#1050;&#1054;&#1045; &#1043;&#1054;&#1042;&#1053;&#1054;
toxic_devil&#1085;&#1072; &#1091;&#1096;&#1080; &#1085;&#1077; &#1086;&#1076;&#1077;&#1085;&#1077;&#1096;&#1100;
TokRa"&#1087;&#1083;&#1072;&#1079;&#1084;&#1072; &#1085;&#1077; &#1087;&#1072;&#1076;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;" (c)
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toxic_devilTokRa: &#1073;&#1075;&#1075;
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TokRa&#1044;&#1072;, &#1087;&#1088;&#1077;&#1087;&#1086;&#1076;&#1086;&#1073;&#1085;&#1099;&#1081; Timothy Pearson, &#1086;&#1085; &#1078;&#1077; kb9vqf
TokRa&#1055;&#1086;&#1082;&#1088;&#1091;&#1095;&#1077; &#1090;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086; &#1089;&#1072;&#1084;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086; &#1055;&#1072;&#1090;&#1088;&#1080;&#1082;&#1072; (&#1080;&#1079; &#1057;&#1083;&#1072;&#1082;&#1074;&#1072;&#1088;&#1080;) &#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1077;&#1090;
edakiriit seems to work as before, except for system notification sounds.
TokRa&#1050; &#1089;&#1086;&#1078;&#1072;&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1102;, &#1103; &#1085;&#1077; &#1079;&#1085;&#1072;&#1102; &#1085;&#1080; &#1086;&#1076;&#1085;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086; &#1074;&#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1103;&#1077;&#1084;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086; &#1072;&#1085;&#1072;&#1083;&#1086;&#1075;&#1072; KMail (&#1080;&#1079;-&#1079;&#1072; &#1087;&#1086;&#1076;&#1076;&#1077;&#1088;&#1078;&#1082;&#1080; Maildir &#1080; &#1085;&#1072;&#1089;&#1090;&#1088;&#1086;&#1077;&#1082;) &#1080; Kate &#1088;&#1077;&#1076;&#1072;&#1082;&#1090;&#1086;&#1088;&#1072;.
edakirisound from trinity itself works
TokRatoxic_devil: &#1087;&#1086;&#1090;&#1086;&#1084;&#1091; &#1080; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1076;&#1077;&#1088;&#1078;&#1080;&#1074;&#1072;&#1102;&#1089;&#1100; KDE
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1073;&#1083;&#1080;&#1085; &#1076;&#1072; &#1084;&#1085;&#1077; &#1103;&#1079;&#1099;&#1082;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;&#1081; &#1073;&#1072;&#1088;&#1100;&#1077;&#1088; &#1084;&#1077;&#1096;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;,&#1103; &#1087;&#1086;&#1085;&#1080;&#1084;&#1072;&#1102; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1086;&#1085;&#1080; &#1087;&#1080;&#1091;&#1090;,&#1072; &#1089;&#1072;&#1084; &#1085;&#1077; &#1084;&#1086;&#1075;&#1091; &#1087;&#1088;&#1077;&#1076;&#1083;&#1086;&#1078;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1103; &#1089;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1074;&#1083;&#1103;&#1090;&#1100;((
TokRaGoogle Translate :)
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1085;&#1091; &#1085;&#1091; &#1075;&#1091;&#1075;&#1083; &#1090;&#1088;&#1072;&#1085;&#1089;&#1083;&#1077;&#1081;&#1090;
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toxic_devilTokRa: &#1072; &#1085;&#1072;&#1089;&#1095;&#1077;&#1090; kmail &#1080; kate &#1085;&#1077; &#1079;&#1085;&#1072;&#1102; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1090;&#1099; &#1074; &#1085;&#1080;&#1093; &#1085;&#1072;&#1096;&#1083;&#1072; &#1090;&#1072;&#1082;&#1086;&#1075;&#1086;
toxic_devil&#1103; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1074;&#1099;&#1082; nano &#1087;&#1086;&#1083;&#1100;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;&#1089;&#1103;
TokRakmail: &#1087;&#1086;&#1076;&#1076;&#1077;&#1088;&#1078;&#1082;&#1072; Maildir
toxic_devil&#1072; &#1087;&#1086;&#1095;&#1090;&#1072; &#1091; &#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1103; &#1095;&#1077;&#1088;&#1077;&#1079; &#1076;&#1078;&#1072;&#1073;&#1073;&#1077;&#1088; &#1090;&#1088;&#1072;&#1085;&#1089;&#1087;&#1086;&#1088;&#1090; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1082;&#1088;&#1091;&#1095;&#1077;&#1085;&#1085;&#1086;
toxic_devil* &#1087;&#1086;&#1076;&#1091;&#1084;&#1099;&#1074;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090; &#1091;&#1073;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100; samelian
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: what?
MutantTurkeyjust saying hi
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: oh
MutantTurkeyDoes anyone here use slackware?
MutantTurkeyo/ is a person waving the o is his head, the / his arm.
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toxic_devilMutantTurkey: i don't know
toxic_devilMutantTurkey: You see KDE 4.6 ??
toxic_devilthis is fucking DE
MutantTurkeyI have not seen it
MutantTurkeyI have seen KDE 4.5 a whil e ago
toxic_devilKDE 4.6
toxic_devilIs not DE
toxic_devilIt Is bug report
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*Strangelv ponders pondering the procticality of forking TDE or even KDE 4 avay from Qt altogether, but lacks sufficiently detailed knowledge. He's also falling asleep.
samelianactually qt is very nice framework
Strangelv"Qt3 or Qt4
sameliani like both of them
StrangelvAre you working ot TQt?
samelianthe concepts are pretty similar
*Strangelv is mostly familiar with people here complaining about how stripped down Qt4 is
sameliannope, only kb9vqf working on tqt
samelianmy tasks are cmake port and developing upower interface
Strangelv"My task is bottlenecked by find out where the art is, and I've been sidetracked by what might qualify as my day job
edakiriStrangelv: i pondered that.  kb9vqfand someone ( samelian?) said it were clearly infeasible without great manpower.
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same_kb9vqf: http://www.thel.ro/upower/classUPower_1_1TClient.html
same_so far, I can suspend() and get upower properties
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kb9vqfI tracked down the popup menu mouse event issue after much hassle and heartache
kb9vqfSeems that Qt4 did this:
kb9vqfif ((windowType() == Qt::Popup) &amp;&amp; rect().contains(pos) &amp;&amp; 0)
kb9vqfNote the &amp;&amp; 0
kb9vqfA nice undocumented change
kb9vqfSee why I hate Qt4?
kb9vqfIt took 30 lines of code to fix that
kb9vqfIn TQt that is
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: Do you think Nokia is smart enough to keep the Qt4 -&gt; Qt5 change minimal?
Xu_Rmakes me wonder, given the community response to the Qt3 -&gt; Qt4 change
kb9vqfI think it depends on their new cell phones
kb9vqfAnd their requirements
*kb9vqf does NOT trust Nokia
kb9vqfNot after Qt4 :)
kb9vqfOn the plus side, we should have a few years to make TQt work with Qt5
kb9vqfIf they offer a preview for a while like they did with Qt4
kb9vqfThat is waaayyy in the future I hope :)
Xu_Rthat would be a nice future indeed
Xu_Rkb9vqf: when you mean new cell phones, i'm guessing meego, right?
kb9vqfWhatever the latest craze is
kb9vqfAt some point they will go "Oh no, Qt doesn't support our competitor's latest input gestures"
kb9vqf"Let's completely change Qt again!"
*kb9vqf can be rather cynical
kb9vqfSeriously though, I don't know what the Qt5 trigger will be
kb9vqfAll I know is that it is likely to happen sometime in the future
kb9vqfAnd it'll probably be based on some tech fad (Qt4 was transparent widgets AFAIK)
kb9vqfThat and Nokia not wanting to maintain a lot of the Qt3 features
Xu_Rit's like they're oblivious to all the community hatred around them.
same_maybe qt will follow linux kernel versioning style :)
sameliani mean, will remain qt 4.x.x
samelianlike kernel 2.6.x
Xu_Rsamelian: the way they're throwing out releases it's only a matter of time before they hit 5.0
samelianwill see
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samelianhowever, qt4 is over qt3 in networking support
samelianalso some integrated features like webkit and dbus
sameliankb9vqf: what is "&amp;&amp; 0"?
samelianseems useless condition
samelianbecause return always false
sameliankb9vqf: how we will integrate libkupower to kdelibs?
samelianwe will create a directory named "backend"?
Space_Man&lt;samelian&gt; kb9vqf: what is "&amp;&amp; 0"?
Space_ManI agree
Space_Manbut I'm not much of a coder
K`zanBinary and with zero?  SWAG :)
K`zanEssentially would be setting whatever to zero.
K`zan= 0 would make more sense if that is what it is doing...
K`zanAh, one gotta love show off programmers :-).
*K`zan refuses to ever admit I was ever one of those ;-).
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kb9vqfsamelian: exactly
kb9vqfThey shut down that conditional
kb9vqfWithout documenting the change or bothering to remove it completely!!
samelianif you don't pay enough attention, you can miss this kind of changes
kb9vqfOh yes
kb9vqfTwo days
kb9vqfIt was VERy hard to trace
kb9vqfThat conditional is buried within the event handler core
sameliankb9vqf: why tdevices?
kb9vqfHang on
kb9vqfLet's change that to:
sameliani think something like this:
sameliankdelibs/backends/{upower,udev,networkmanager,sound}, etc
samelianyou agree with me?
kb9vqfWell, not really
kb9vqfI would like to keep the hardware stuff in its own directory
kb9vqfOtherwise kdelibs will become a mess, fast
sameliani think backend will be the layer between trinity and 3rd party stuff
kb9vqfYou'll have to move some other folders around
kb9vqflibkrandr, etc.
kb9vqfAlso, I'm not sure
kb9vqfkdelibs itself is one big interface to 3rd party stuff
kb9vqfHow about kdelibs/hardware/
sameliandepends what meaning "hardware"
sameliannetworkmanager is not hardware
kb9vqfYes it is
kb9vqfWell, it interfaces to the network card
sameliansort of, but not exactly
kb9vqfso kdelibs/devices/backends
kb9vqfand kdelibs/devices/frontends
samelianso, backends will be direct link to 3rd party stuff
samelianand frontend the API for trinity developers, right?
samelianso the layers will be:P
samelianapplication -&gt; frondend -&gt; backend -&gt; 3rd party
samelianin upower case will be:
sameliankpowersave -&gt; frontend -&gt; backend -&gt; dbus
sameliankpowersave -&gt; frontend -&gt; backend -&gt; dbus -&gt; upower
kb9vqfWe'll move libkrandr to devices/frontends
sameliansound logical to me
kb9vqfSince that library is the public interfaces to XRandR
samelianxrandr cannot be accesed via dbus?
kb9vqfDirect Xorg calls only
sameliani see
kb9vqfIt's a very low level API
samelianok, not matter
samelianfor high level developer no matter anyway
kb9vqffrontends contains all libraries that are supposed to be used in Trinity applications
kb9vqfbackends should not be used outside of the frontend librariew
kb9vqfIt might be a good idea to make the backend classes private
sameliansure, because its API can be changed
kb9vqfAnd then friend the frontend libraries
samelianhmm, will be complicated
samelianwe can include something like this:
samelian#ifndef BACKEND_DEVELOPER
kb9vqfLike the old acknowleding the DBUS API is unstable
samelian#error this interface should be used just be backed developers
kb9vqfWorks for me!
kb9vqfAnd we'll just reject applications that set BACKEND_DEVELOPER ;-
kb9vqfMore Qt4 fun....CoordinateMode::CoordDevice (the default CoordinateMode) is just gone.  No replacement, and the Qt4 replacement current functions utilize CoordinateMode::CoordPainter instead.
Xu_Rit's like they threw all this stuff in the trash because it didn't look nice.
kb9vqfLots of fun breakage in scrolling views because of that
kb9vqfI'm reimplementing it as usual in TQt....
sameliansometime I think that maybe is better to enhance Qt3 and that's all
kb9vqfThe Qt4 graphics engine is better
kb9vqfBut has fewer features
samelianmaybe these enhacements can be backported to qt3
kb9vqfNo, not really
kb9vqfThe graphics engine is a complete rewrite
samelianaha, i do not dig so deep
kb9vqfI actually have kdesktop, kicker etc. running under Qt4 with Tqt
kb9vqfI'm just trying to stamp out the remaining painting problems
kb9vqfBelieve it or not, over my VNC connection it actually has pretty good performance
kb9vqfComparable to Qt3 over VNC
kb9vqfSo I think the slow bloat is actually in KDE4 itself, not Qt4
kb9vqfJust a hunch :-)
samelianthis is my impression too
samelianbecause skype and qt creator are pretty fast
*kb9vqf is glad he is not alone in that impression
kb9vqfAhh, KDE4....the ugly stepsister of the KDE series
sameliani do not used it more 10 minutes
kb9vqfI struggled with it for a few days
kb9vqfThen gave up
kb9vqfI wan't getting any work done
sameliani hope that more developers wil join to trinity team after we modernize background
kb9vqfI hope so too
kb9vqfHence the Qt4 interface
sameliani enjoy very much programming upower interface
kb9vqfGlad to hear it :)
kb9vqfI also enjoyed the krandr interface back when
kb9vqfTQt....not so much
kb9vqfIt's massive
samelianmassive task become borring
kb9vqfNow I need a way to reverse the Qt4 deviceTransform() matrix
kb9vqfOf course, being Qt4, the didn't provide an easy way
sameliani have this impression making cmake
sameliancopy/paste, copy/paste, ....
kb9vqfBut quite necessary
Xu_Ryou know, it makes me wonder, did they strip down Qt4 to make the library smaller? O_o
samelianyes, it is
kb9vqfSmaller and easier for them to maintain
samelianqt4 are actually prety well modularized
Xu_Rwell, then KDE4 made Qt4 look like crap.
kb9vqfQt4 is a nice library
kb9vqfIt's just not as powerful as Qt3 was
kb9vqfIn the core areas
sameliani like qt4 because I can write servers with it
kb9vqfIt's obviously designed for cell phones on the UI end as well
kb9vqfSo kind of an odd mix
samelianwithout gui legacy
Xu_Ri see.
kb9vqfThe ONLY problem I have with Qt3 is that it is not LGPL
samelianfew years ago I write an tiff/faxview with qt3
samelianmaybe I will revive it
kb9vqfTQt port it :)
sameliansure, is written in pure qt
sameliankfax was not enough when I used faxes, a century ago :)
kb9vqfThe fax macine just....won't....die.
sameliani think I will write some kparts
samelianthen a shell similar to okular
kb9vqfSometime after TQt for Qt4 is done we will need to replace KHTML's innards with WebKit
samelianbut will be available for qt4 only, i guess
kb9vqfThat's the main reason for the Qt4 interface actually
kb9vqfIs to gain acces to peripheral classes like that
kb9vqfThey added power in those areas, but removed it in the core
kb9vqfLike I said, they seem to have tailored it for their cell phones and apps
kb9vqfsamelian: OK, I'm getting fed up
kb9vqfYou have Qt4 experience, right?
samelianmore or less :)
kb9vqfHow in the world can I reverse the QPainter device mapping?!??
sameliani wrote few apps with qt4
kb9vqfI need to undo a QTransform that utilized QPainter::deviceTransform()
kb9vqfSo I need to go from device coordinates to painter coordinates
samelianhmm, i do not reach so low level
kb9vqfWell, the lower levels is where much of the power is missing
kb9vqfThat might explain why some developers don't miss Qt3
kb9vqfJust a thought :)
kb9vqfI think I may have it...
kb9vqfThere is a poorly documented inverted() function that MAY do what I need for 2D work only
kb9vqfTime will tell :)
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: sorry, going to disturb this channel for a few moments
Xu_R#startmeeting Test Meetbot
[lindaemon]Meeting started Mon Feb  7 01:50:54 2011 UTC.  The chair is Xu_R. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
[lindaemon]Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
Xu_Rtest test
*kb9vqf notes that you can use a test channel
kb9vqfe.g. #0987970345345
Xu_R(trillian is fking up on my comp)
Xu_R!deletemeeting #trinity-desktop freenode false
[lindaemon]Xu_R: Deleted: meeting on (#trinity-desktop, freenode).
Xu_Rok, done disturbing here
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Pikithat was... disturbing. isn't trillian a proprietary win-only client? and why do we need a meeting? lol (j/k on the meeting)
Xu_RPiki: .-.
Xu_Rand yes
<kick channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-07T01:31:00Z">[lindaemon]</kick>
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Xu_Rlemme get it out. lol.
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kb9vqfOne bot is bad enough
Xu_Rit's the war of the bots! XD
kb9vqfExcept tbottu has chanop
Pikitbottu: what is [lindaemon]?
tbottuPiki: Sorry, I've no idea what '[lindaemon]' is.
kb9vqftbottu: what is lindaemon
tbottukb9vqf: hmm... I think lindaemon is a nasty competitor bot, rarely heard since I banished it from the solar system
Xu_Rkb9vqf: pfft who cares about ops. xD
kb9vqfkickban anyone? XD
Xu_RLOL, and then it crashes my server. xD
Xu_Rkb9vqf: do not think of trying that XD
kb9vqfI'm not evil :)
Xu_Rriggghhhhhhhtttttttt.... xD
*kb9vqf uses Darth Vader voice
PikiUse the Source young Xu_R! Use the Source!
Xu_Rgo, shoo, back to your tqt porting! i've got chem and precal hw to finish ;)
kb9vqfNot on my channel you don't ;-)
*kb9vqf runs and hides
Xu_Rkb9vqf: yes, go, run RUNNNN XD or I'll go azn on you. :P
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-07T02:56:11Z">+o tbottu </mode>
MutantTurkeywhats up
Pikinot much
Pikijust adding in the rest of the vowels
Pikifinally seeing my g/f ^.^
Pikifirst time in many months
Pikiwe're both excited
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="kb9vqf" time="2011-02-07T04:08:52Z">+o tbottu </mode>
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so i am having trouble with this side bar
kb9vqfWhat kind of trouble?
MutantTurkeyi'll get some help from samelian tomorrow though
MutantTurkeyI just don't know how to align it properly, He surely knows how
kb9vqfHe probably knows more than I do about that ;-)
MutantTurkey:-P probably
kb9vqfI'm C/C++/php/etc.
MutantTurkeyanyway I've got class tomorrow at 9am so i gotta sleepy
MutantTurkeyI am all C i don't know anything else.
kb9vqfI just never got into CSS
MutantTurkeyenough scripting, sed, awk to get around too
MutantTurkeyanyway cya round
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Pikiy/ too
Pikianyway, must go, need to get a hair cut, can't be looking like a scruffy hippy for my g/f tomorrow ;-)
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Xu_R|Schoolanyone alive here? :P
Xu_R|School(never including me...)
Space_Manhi Xu_R|School
*Strangelv belatedly waves
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toxic_devilhi all
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MutantTurkeyo/ samelian?
Xu_Rhey MutantTurkey :D
Xu_Rhow's the site design coming along?
MutantTurkeyactually not at all
MutantTurkeyI have hit a major roadblock
MutantTurkeyI cannot figure out how to make a side bar like kb9vqf wanted
MutantTurkeyyeah D:
Xu_Roh noes...
MutantTurkeyI am waiting to talk to samelian, who has some css knowledge
MutantTurkeyyou can see the current stuff online at my IP address.
Xu_Rping same_
MutantTurkeythat is samelian?
same_Xu_R: pong
MutantTurkeycurrently: thttp://
MutantTurkeythe front page is going to be fully reworked, mostly to show off 3.5.12  and have a screen shot
MutantTurkeyso a screen should would be welcome
MutantTurkeydo you like the design so far/
MutantTurkeyah. that expplains much
Xu_RMutantTurkey: yes! yes I do! :D
Xu_RMutantTurkey: hmm... why a sidebar? Is the top not enough?
MutantTurkeyXu_R: there are more sub links, unless we should come up with a better place to put them
MutantTurkeylike, installation notes, CD images, bug tracking, SVN feed, project files, the roadmap nightly builds
Xu_Rah. the side bar should be only a short-term solution unless we can make it fit in... because otherwise it kinda makes the site like the old one except with css.
MutantTurkeymaybe a second sub bar
MutantTurkeynot at all
Xu_Rthe second sub bar sounds like a good idea.
MutantTurkeymore of a side bar like, http://archlinux.org
Xu_RMutantTurkey: OH. I see. That works out then.
MutantTurkeyi would like a sub bar
MutantTurkeymaybe that is a good proposition
samelianMutantTurkey: you can do this in two ways
samelianposition: absolute
samelianor floating divs
MutantTurkeywhich do you think is better?
MutantTurkeyi would like to have it best formatted for all size screens, large and small
MutantTurkeythat is my major concern
samelianthe right side can have fixed width
MutantTurkeyisn't fixed with to be avoided
samelianMutantTurkey: http://www.barelyfitz.com/screencast/html-training/css/positioning/
MutantTurkeyis foxycode a frequent here?
MutantTurkeyRicky Thompson
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DarthPenguingn to all
MutantTurkeyXu_R: what about this (sorry it is rather bad right now)      &lt;ul id="list"&gt;
MutantTurkey        &lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/" title="Package Database"&gt;Packages&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
MutantTurkey        &lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="./" title="Community forums"&gt;Forums&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
MutantTurkey        &lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="./wiki" title="Community documentation"&gt;Wiki&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
MutantTurkey        &lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=ALL" title="Report and track bugs"&gt;Bugs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
MutantTurkey        &lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://websvn.kde.org/branches/trinity/" title="Web SVN Access"&gt;SVN&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
MutantTurkey        &lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="./mailinglists" title="Mailing Lists"&gt;Mailing Lists&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
MutantTurkey        &lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="donate.php" title="Donate"&gt;Donate&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
MutantTurkey      &lt;/ul&gt;
MutantTurkeyoh sorry
MutantTurkeyD: wrong buffer
MutantTurkeysorry for flooding
MutantTurkeyi have tried to make a sub bar sort of
Xu_RMutantTurkey:  not bad, not bad. :)
Xu_Rcan we keep it to the right side, right under the main bar?
Xu_Rthat way it seems to be in alignment.
MutantTurkeyi am not sure yet
MutantTurkeyit is quite ugly right now
MutantTurkeybut i am going to finish watching this movie i started earlier, then take another crack at it
Xu_Rgood idea, go relax :)
MutantTurkeyalright ready to get cracking
MutantTurkeyXu_R: check this out`
MutantTurkeyXu_R: check this out
Xu_RMutantTurkey: in php now? nice.
MutantTurkeydo you like the look
Xu_Ryes, indeeed.
MutantTurkeyi added the sub bar
Xu_Rthe sub bar actually fits like that. good job :)
MutantTurkeyit is doing a weird problem, where it seems to not go all the way 100% width, but if i put -15px it fits D:
MutantTurkeyi'll ask samelian about that
MutantTurkeybut i think its very nice looking
Xu_R-15 px lol
Xu_Rthat is strange
MutantTurkeyi think it is getting pushed by something i cannot figure it out
MutantTurkeyi'll start looking now
MutantTurkeyXu_R: fixed it :D
MutantTurkeyno more -15px. it should be working well now
MutantTurkeyenough for today :p
Xu_Rhehe. getting late.
MutantTurkeyquite tired
kb9vqfNice job!
kb9vqfCan you add a "Screenshots" tab?
kb9vqfTomorrow that is :)
MutantTurkeyyes sir
MutantTurkeytrying to convert more of your pages also, I need a full list of all the pages, you said you left some out?
Xu_Ranyone wanna ping me tmrw like crazy around 1350 telling me to move my lazy butt and finish up trinity rpms? I've been procrastinating for a few days D:
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Well, the other pages are dynamically generated
kb9vqfI'll have to deal with those here
kb9vqfMailing lists and such
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: hmmm, but you could easily modify them to add the stylization right?
MutantTurkeyright makes sense
kb9vqfBut I can't go sending you the scripts that generate those pages ;-)
kb9vqfSensitive stuff there
Xu_Rlol oooh, what do we have here? :P
kb9vqfThey're firewalled and on a different machine
kb9vqfNo hacking allowed :)
MutantTurkeyalso i noticed your SVN patches list is generated fine, but should be reversed.
kb9vqfYes, you mentioned that earlier
MutantTurkeypeople like to see the most recent events rather than ones in 2008
MutantTurkeyoh okay good
kb9vqfwhen you send over the new website files please remind me
*kb9vqf has a terrible memory
MutantTurkeyI've got a todo going
kb9vqfGreat :)
MutantTurkeyso I'll add that
kb9vqfI'm going to put up the IRC logs as well at some point
MutantTurkeyyou log them?
kb9vqfThat's tbottu's primary function
MutantTurkeywith tbottu right?
kb9vqfSo I can do cool things like this
kb9vqfBut 67
kb9vqfBug 67
tbottuBug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=67 cri, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESO WORKSFORME, Errors while installing kde 3.5
MutantTurkeyuse supy bot they are really nice.
MutantTurkeyoh well
MutantTurkeysupy can do stuff like this
MutantTurkey!google blah blah blah
Xu_Rsupybot also supports bugzilla, and there's also MeetBot :D
MutantTurkeyor !wiki blah blah
kb9vqfSeems all my design decisions are suspect, hmmm? ;-)
MutantTurkey!weather zipcode
MutantTurkey!xkcd reference
Xu_RMutantTurkey: I'm not bringing [lindaemon] in here for you to demonstrate
kb9vqfActually mozbot can do that stuff too
Xu_Rkb9vqf resents that bot. xD
kb9vqfI don't want to allow it too
kb9vqfI don't want to allow it to
MutantTurkeyone thing that i  think you should add is link headers
kb9vqfIn the USA we have very strict laws
MutantTurkeybecause I'd like to know if the link is suspicious and such?
kb9vqfLink headers?
MutantTurkeyfor example
MutantTurkeylook at my link: http://google.com
MutantTurkey(09:59:05 PM) phrik: Title: Google (at google.com)
kb9vqfWould be nice, BUT:
kb9vqfIn the USA we have very strict laws
MutantTurkey:[ i always found that handy
MutantTurkeyright... not in PA xD
kb9vqfIf it looks like my server is going after suspect content I can go to jail
kb9vqfIn an extreme case
MutantTurkeywell lets avoid foolishness then and just stick with logging
kb9vqfSo, I don't want my servers going after outside content :)
Xu_Rgood idea.
MutantTurkeyanyway, I'm off to bed. more work to be done tomorrow.
kb9vqfOK, thanks :)
MutantTurkeyi'm done class around 12:00 so I should be floating around and such periodically.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: also, quick question, what web server do you use?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: does tbottu have a nice alarm function that allows it to ping me annoyingly around 1500? I'm back home by then
Xu_RI need to stop procrastinating :P
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: A hardened Apache
kb9vqfXu_R: I don't know :-P
MutantTurkeyD: apache.
Xu_RMutantTurkey: /me uses lighttpd ftw lol
MutantTurkeyapache seems to hate me no matter what i do to it.
kb9vqfHey, stop bashing :D
MutantTurkeyXu_R: samsies
kb9vqfYou just don't know how to configure it :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: lighttpd is great, youtue even uses it!
MutantTurkeynice and light
MutantTurkeyfast and really scalable and deals with traffic well
Xu_Rlet's not gang up on poor kb9vqf now XD
MutantTurkeyrelevent link http://www.lighttpd.net/
kb9vqfApache is non-negotiable
kb9vqfI host lots of websites
kb9vqfFor many, many hears
kb9vqfyears that is
MutantTurkeyI know, i was just mentioning it.
Xu_Rthe experienced love apache :)
kb9vqfAn old trusted friend
MutantTurkeythe greatest part about open source, is the different options
Xu_Rchoices :D
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: old trusted friend? my PIII.
MutantTurkeythat baby is still chuggin along perfectly.
*kb9vqf has a PII
kb9vqfOf course I tend to use my 4 core Opteron instead :)
Xu_Rwoah, I beat all of you then?
Xu_RI have a pentium that still boots into win98 xD
MutantTurkeyD: 4 core opteron
MutantTurkeysounds magical
Xu_Rthat i need to throw away...sooner...or...later (parents are starting to complain)
kb9vqfDoes having a 486SX chip laying around count?  :-P
MutantTurkeyi have a intel atom ._.
MutantTurkeythe joke of the CPU world.
Xu_Rtrue that.
kb9vqfUpgrade my man!
MutantTurkey@30W Peak i don't complain though.
kb9vqfI guess
MutantTurkeyi figure i could run 10 boxes for the same as a regular box.
kb9vqfYeah, but nothing beats an Opteron for raw FLOPS
MutantTurkeyi mean the only reason it is 30 not around 20ish is because i have a hard drive finally, used to use a CF (slot on board) as my main board
MutantTurkeysome of those OMAP boards are coming really close
MutantTurkeywell, not a single one, but at 5W they are pretty powerful.
kb9vqfYes, FLOPS/Watt the're great
MutantTurkeymhm :D
MutantTurkeyintel atom has very low computational power
MutantTurkeyit does very little
kb9vqfBut to make an equivalent machine would take a warehouse full :-)
kb9vqfAnd uses very little power
kb9vqfI dunno
kb9vqfI have a Via fanless
kb9vqfNever could get it to do very much
MutantTurkeyvia is way better
MutantTurkeyARM is where it is at
kb9vqfHey, maybe we need to see about building Trinity on ARM
MutantTurkeythis thing is a great server though!
kb9vqfFor basic tasks I'm sure
kb9vqfTry hosting QuickBuild
Xu_Rhm... Trinity on ARM.
MutantTurkeyhome media server it is wonderful
MutantTurkeywhat is quickbuild?
Xu_RMutantTurkey: kb9vqf's version of launchpad
kb9vqfBig power-hungry build farm
*Xu_R shakes head at power-hungry
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yeah the trinity website is quite slow sometimes.
kb9vqfLike I said it's under a lot of load
kb9vqfLots of users
MutantTurkeyreally? I am suprised but glad
MutantTurkeyyou use one server for many domains though, correct?
kb9vqfBut Trinity is by far the largest bandwidth hog
MutantTurkeywell that is excellent news
Xu_Rdamn. getting more and more attention everyday
kb9vqfThe Wiki stats show some of that
kb9vqfThousands of hits
MutantTurkeyper day?
kb9vqfPer month I think
Xu_Rit's even attracted the attention on opensuse-kde3 and opensuse-kde (for kde4)... so we're getting there.
MutantTurkeythat is good
kb9vqfBut those stats are per page
MutantTurkey:) righ
Xu_Rhowever, I'm just going to put this out there that fedora-kde is ignoring this D:
kb9vqfI'm sure
kb9vqfDebian isn't too happy either
MutantTurkeywell then designing a fast, quick website is great.
kb9vqfBecause of the binary compatibility problem
MutantTurkeywhats the problem?
Xu_Rwell, maybe if Debian helped us a bit, then it could be better.
MutantTurkeyand gah I really need to go to bed.
kb9vqfI tend to break binary compatibility with each new release
Xu_Rthe binary compat is a pain in the butt
MutantTurkeynight all.
Xu_Rnite MutantTurkey
kb9vqfIf we do that the project stalls and dies
*Xu_R sighs
kb9vqfOh well
Xu_Rwe're walking a fine thread here.
kb9vqfI don't understand the fuss personally
Xu_Rneither do i.
kb9vqfSo you rebuild the packge
kb9vqfBig deal
Xu_Raccording to #fedora-kde (lemme get logs...)
Xu_R"mainly because you cannot install kde4 and kde3 on the same machine, and that we can't use /opt"
kb9vqfWhy can't they use /opt??!?!?
Xu_RFHS packaging guidelines
kb9vqfSo I can't create a Gnome app named kate
Xu_Rno major distro can /opt unless it is out of the main distro
Xu_Rkb9vqf: nope D:
kb9vqfBecause it will step on KDE
kb9vqfThat sounds like a nightmare
Xu_Ryea. that's why KDE3 isn't in openSUSE repositories (it's in a subproject outside the main)
kb9vqfKind of like a giant polluted namespace
*kb9vqf shakes his head
kb9vqfI thought Linux was about flexibility and good design
Xu_RMandriva tried to do both, but then they ended up crashing with each other and making 2008.1 a failure-ish.
kb9vqfThat sounds like BAD design
Xu_Rkb9vqf: makes me wonder, who made up these rules?! .-.
kb9vqfKDE e.V?
Xu_RLOL, that'd be terrible
Xu_Roh, wait. the major distros.
kb9vqfActually, I thought (once upon a time) /opt was recommended
Xu_Rfor local software that the user compiles himself/herself
*kb9vqf wishes that he had the guidelines handy
Xu_Rthat ... I forget the rest
Xu_RI know it's like /usr/local, but for special purposes...
kb9vqfThird party software
Xu_Rhey, I just opened that! XD
Xu_Rah, right.
Xu_Rwhen they include it as part of the main repositories
Xu_Rthey consider that default installation.
Xu_R(bah packaging rules)
kb9vqfDefault is default
kb9vqfNot available
kb9vqfOh well
*kb9vqf doesn't really care
kb9vqfIf I wanted to then I could make a distribution that prevents KDE4
Xu_Ryea... it's a loop of crap that ends up with crap. :P
*kb9vqf gets and evil grin
kb9vqfDistro rule #1: No default widgets over &lt;x&gt; size
kb9vqfIf it's big enough to be pressed with a big fat greasy finger then it's too big to be used on a desktop
Xu_Rthis already sounds like a perfect nokia phone. xD
kb9vqfRule #2: If you have to go more than three levels deep to access a function your software is banned
*Xu_R is roflmao'ing atm....
kb9vqfGood, good
*kb9vqf needs to get back to work
kb9vqfAnd stop the comedy show
Xu_Rokees. although it's 2220, it's kinda late :-\
Xu_Rdon't worry, I gotta finish hw too. :P
Xu_Rnite :)
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toxic_devilku ku
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toxic_devilsamelian: &#1074;&#1086;&#1079;&#1084;&#1086;&#1078;&#1085;&#1086; &#1082; &#1074;&#1072;&#1084; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1075;&#1088;&#1072;&#1084;&#1084;&#1080;&#1089;&#1090;&#1099; &#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1091;&#1090; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1093;&#1086;&#1076;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100;, &#1074;&#1099; &#1080;&#1084; &#1086;&#1073;&#1100;&#1103;&#1089;&#1085;&#1080;&#1090;&#1077; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1076;&#1072; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082;
Revan199iconv -f utf-8 -t koi8-r - PROFIT
Revan199kb9vqf: I'm using KOI8-R encoding in IRC (exactly, XMPP transport do)
kb9vqfOh, OK
Revan199and toxic_devil wrote his message in UTF-8
kb9vqfJust wanted to make sure you weren't a spam bot or something :)
Revan199kb9vqf: ah =)
Revan1993.5.1210/03/2010 :o
kb9vqfWhat's wrong with that?
kb9vqfWe're on an approximately 6 month long release cycle
kb9vqfIt may need to be lengthened some IMHO
kb9vqfTo ensure a high quality release
Revan199it like propietary model %(
Revan199also interested why Trinity 3*
Revan199why not 1.5.12?
kb9vqfYou think the releases are too fast?
kb9vqf3.* is just to continue the KDE series numbers
kb9vqfBelieve it or not a lot of code checks for &gt;3.5
kb9vqf&gt;=3.5.x that is
kb9vqfAlso, users would get confused if we switched from version 3 to version 1
*kb9vqf is interested in your opinion of the release cycle though
Revan199kb9vqf: maybe one month?
kb9vqfThere is no way we can generate releases that often without introducing major bugs at each release
kb9vqfOr allowing the software to stagnate
Revan1992 months?
kb9vqfStill very tight
kb9vqfIt usually takes me 2 months just to build the Ubuntu and Debian packages
kb9vqfLots of software
kb9vqfLots of places where things can break
kb9vqfWe need to make each release ultra stable
kb9vqfTo differentiate this project from KDE
kb9vqfOtherwise we will experience the same backlash
kb9vqf"Trinity DE ate my cat and now I love Gnome instead" ;-)
Revan199kb9vqf: what?
kb9vqfIf users encounter bugs they tend to switch to a more stable desktop
kb9vqfThat's my experience
kb9vqfIf we shorten the release cycle too much we will introduce lots of bugs
kb9vqfSimply due to the fact that no testing can occur within that short of a time frame
samelianwe can release maintenance releases
Revan199http://translate.google.ru/translate?js=n&amp;prev=_t&amp;hl=ru&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;layout=2&amp;eotf=1&amp;sl=ru&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxforum.ru%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fid%3D6838 my opinion (9/22/2010) about Trinity
kb9vqfThose I could see being released much faster
kb9vqfRevan199: Thanks
kb9vqfAlso, there is a very good example of why a fast release cycle is bad
kb9vqfThose Ubuntu icos snuck in
kb9vqfThey are NOT supposed to be there
kb9vqfBut they were not caught until after the release was already made
kb9vqfI was rushing with the Debian packages
kb9vqfAnd it shows :-(
kb9vqfI would really like someone else to take over Debian packaging
Revan199do you know about Pardus Corporate2?
Revan199not me :-D
kb9vqfI have not used it
Revan199my Mobile AMD Athlon 64 3400+ can't
kb9vqfYou can use QuickBuild
*kb9vqf digresses
kb9vqfI did hear about Pardus on the mailing list
Revan1993 hours for kernel
kb9vqfI just need someone to upload packages to the build system
Revan199I think that there is a good idea to cooperate with them
kb9vqfMaintain the packaging, etc.
kb9vqfThey use Trinity, correct?
Revan199they use KDE3 with patches
Revan199own patches
kb9vqfTrinity contains a lot of patches from various distros
kb9vqfI would not mind incorporating theoirs
kb9vqfHowever, patching may not be straightforward any more
kb9vqfThe Trinity codebase has already diverged significantly from KDE3.5.10
kb9vqfTrinity has features that are not available in any other KDE3 maintinance series
kb9vqfFunctionality has been moved into core libraries
kb9vqfnew core libraries that is
kb9vqfI am tempted to make the next release 3.5.6
kb9vqfTo emphasize the API changes
kb9vqfrevan199: If I could offload Debian/Ubuntu packaging to another group I would be willing to shorten the release cycle some
kb9vqfI don't know if you know of anyone who might want to take over :)
Xu_Rkb9vqf: you mean 3.6 :P
kb9vqfYes I do
Revan199kb9vqf: I don't
kb9vqfJust thought I'd ask
Revan199kb9vqf: maybe, someone in debian-kde?
kb9vqfThey don't like my API/ABI changes from release to release
kb9vqfBut without them the project will die
kb9vqfLinux changes
kb9vqfAnd Trinity must change as well
kb9vqfMaybe after 3.6.0 they will look at it again
kb9vqfBut we have a lot of work to do before we can declare kdelibs as stable and unchanging
Revan199what TDE thinks about HAL? =)
kb9vqfWe want HAL gone!
kb9vqfsamelian is working on a nice replacement
kb9vqfIt will eventually follow this
Revan199Bad Request: GET denied for save
kb9vqfThis is one reason we can't stabilize the kdelibs API yet :)
*Xu_R kicks HAL out of the installation with a pointy boot
kb9vqfWrong URL, sorry
*kb9vqf hates Firefox autocomplete from time to time
kb9vqfSomehow Firefox thinks I saved the page more than I viewed it (???)
kb9vqfHonestly I'm thinking we need to block the next release on these two items:
kb9vqf1. CMake
kb9vqf2. HAL
kb9vqfsamelian ^^
kb9vqfAutomake is a big, big problem
kb9vqfAnd HAL is not available anymore on several distros
sameliani think cmake will not be stable for next few months
samelianand hal replacement is pretty big change too
kb9vqfYes, but I don't want to release yet another buggy release
*kb9vqf is not sure
kb9vqfAll I know is that Trinity won't even build under Ubuntu without CMake
kb9vqfAnd Gentoo, and RedHat
kb9vqfWe have to block on CMake
kb9vqfHAL is not as important as CMake is
Revan199kb9vqf: what the problem with CMake and Ubuntu?
kb9vqfActually it's a problem with Automake and Ubuntu
kb9vqfCMake works just fine under Ubuntu
kb9vqfBut Trinity does not have full support for CMake yet
kb9vqfI think I will have to wait for full CMake support before I can release the next version of Trinity
kb9vqfWhich means that I will probably be helping with that :-P
*kb9vqf does not look forward to it
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kb9vqfsamelian ^^
kb9vqfYou may have to give me a crash course in CMake in the next few weeks
kb9vqfEven better, could you put your porting process on the Wiki?
kb9vqfStep-by-step instructions for taking the Automake file and creating a CMake file from it?
kb9vqfThanks :)
*kb9vqf suggests http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/CMakeConversionProcess
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DarthPenguinok going for a while bbl
tbottuTrinity web services going offline for routine maintinance.  Estimated service restoration date 02/09/2011.
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Xu_Roh dear. net splits... again.
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toxic_devilhi all
kb9vqfAny new programmers to help with CMake? ;-)
toxic_devilkb9vqf: to you no one came? "(((
kb9vqfI did not see anyone
kb9vqfOr they did not announce themselves
toxic_devilkb9vqf: I spoke yesterday with many programmers, but probably not enough (((
*kb9vqf will wait patiently
kb9vqfsamelian is supposed to be putting a general Automake-to-CMake porting guide on the Wiki
kb9vqfThat may help some
kb9vqfI wonder where MutantTurkey ran off to?
kb9vqfThe new website may help as well ;-)
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toxic_devilkb9vqf: hm
toxic_devilkb9vqf: I try to do anything, but it does not work (((
toxic_devilkb9vqf: They tell me that I need to learn to program (((
kb9vqfOh, OK :-P
toxic_devilkb9vqf: I never learn this ((
kb9vqfI know that KDE4 itself is also very short on developers
kb9vqfI wonder if this is just a result of the bad global economy
kb9vqfPeople don't have as much spare time any more
toxic_devilkb9vqf: is not the problem
kb9vqfI was speaking in general terms, not just about you ;-)
kb9vqftoxic_devil: You know, CMake porting is supposed to be somewhat easy
kb9vqfNot like programming
kb9vqfWhen samelian gets the Wiki page up maybe you can look at it?
kb9vqfI don't know if you have the time though
toxic_devilkb9vqf: I will be one of the first who will see it
kb9vqfSounds great!
Pikiseems like everyone who mentions an image is trying to send me that image... kinda wandering why?
sameliankb9vqf: as you noticed, my english is not very well, so my cmake documentation will be like a tutorial
kb9vqfThat's perfect
kb9vqfI can clean up the English
kb9vqfBut I don't know how to port to CMake myself
kb9vqfThat's why you have to write the basic process first
sameliani create some macros which make this process really easy
kb9vqfEven better :)
toxic_devilsamelian: hi
samelianI started the article
Pikikb9vqf: every time i see mention of an image in irc, i seem to get a DCC send request from that person for that image
kb9vqfPiki: On this channel or others?
sameliannow I will add basic usage of these macros, syntax and formatting rules
*kb9vqf wants to know if he set something up wrong...again....
Pikikb9vqf: every channel
kb9vqfPiki: Konversation or all clients
Pikikb9vqf: kvirc, haven't gotten konversation fixed yet
kb9vqfOK, just wanted to make sure it wasn't my problem ;-)
*kb9vqf has not gotten any DCC requests
Pikikb9vqf: it's mostly this channel, nobody ever visits #arklinux-devel, and #arklinux is slow, but both #arklinux and this channel do it when i see an image
Pikii don't think there's a way to set a channel to do that anyway ;-)
Pikiand the send requests aren't from tbottu
kb9vqfNo, I don't think so either
Pikibut from the user that mentions the user
kb9vqfI wonder if it is a kvirc issue or not
kb9vqfProbably not though
Pikiand it isn't the same nick all the time, just whoever mentions the image
kb9vqfDCC requests are sender-initiated IIRC
kb9vqfSomeone may have a buggy client
samelianargh... I hate wiki :)
kb9vqfThat's not good :(
Pikikb9vqf: i doubt it's kivrc, this didn't happen a couple weeks ago when i last reinstalled ark
samelianit's too hard to formatiing
sameliankb9vqf: I will post my tutorial on forum
kb9vqfWhat are you trying to do?
samelianright now i want to paste a code
kb9vqfAnd there are no code blocks
kb9vqfI wish FOSWiki would fix that
samelianah, nice, I will use plain wiki markers
kb9vqfThere you go :)
kb9vqfI just found that &lt;verbatim&gt; is supposed to work; that might be what you are using?
samelianwait, I will try
samelianseems ok
kb9vqfHmm, my rules are different
kb9vqfI think I am missing the code extension
*kb9vqf goes to check
sameliankb9vqf: the wiki is a pain in the ass :)
kb9vqfWorking on it; hang on
samelianeating my &lt;/verbatim&gt; markers
kb9vqfOk, the wiki is gaining a lot of features very shortly
kb9vqfIncluding talk pages :)
kb9vqfAnd MediWiki syntax support
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samelianI think we need two distinct articles
samelianhow to build trinity using cmake
samelianand how to port automake to cmake
samelianXu_R: ping
kb9vqfYes, I agree
kb9vqfTwo separate articles
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kb9vqfsamelian: Ues this for the second article: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/Developers/HowToBuildTrinityWithCMake
kb9vqfAlso, if you like MediWiki syntax you can try this: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/System/EditSyntaxPlugin
Pikikb9vqf: what are we doing using a wiki meant for medical work ;-)
kb9vqfIt's actually quite powerful
Pikikb9vqf: can't say i've heard of it, but at some point if it is really that powerful, i may do a test instal
Pikiand perhaps foswiki, but never liked the FOSwiki ui
kb9vqfI was referring to FOSWiki being quite powerful ;-)
kb9vqfMediaWiki does have some drawbacks IIRC
Pikikb9vqf: hmm?
kb9vqfI don't remember what they are right now ;-)
kb9vqfMy research into Wikis was done a long time ago
*samelian hate html WYSIWYG
Pikikb9vqf: i've not used many wikis, but with the few i tried, i definitely like mediawiki best
kb9vqfI have heard that from a few people now
Pikisamelian: have you tried CKEditor? or are you designing a new page at home?
samelianCKEditor is bad as any other javascript WYSIWYG editor :)
Pikikb9vqf: i'll have to try a bunch of wikis at some point, see what i would like the best, just not much time, and trying to use today to relax
Pikisamelian: it's not too bad, but i don't like html WYSIWYG eithre
PikiCKEditor is one of the few ones that are "ok"
Pikikb9vqf: wikipedia has a comparison of wiki software, if you want to look at it
kb9vqfThat's what I used to select FOSWiki :)
kb9vqfBTW I just ran an upgrade to the latest FOSWiki version
kb9vqfsamelian, If you run into problems let me know
StrangelvDoes it helyp to say that FOSWiki is the second best wiki I've used?
StrangelvI would definietly want to put some things from MediaWiki into it
sameliannope :)
StrangelvProbably number one is to save the markup, not html derived form teh markup
Strangelv"Things get lost in shuffling back and forth
Strangelv"especially ones related to formatting
StrangelvTalk pages would be really helpful too
kb9vqfStrangelv: Talk pages are now available :)
Pikikb9vqf: if we have someone that can do the FOSwiki syntax, i can start adding some normal user documentation after a few more TDE releases (or at least, whenever i get an opening in my schedule)
StrangelvOh good
Strangelv:: looks to see if the IRC archive is up since the last time he looked
kb9vqfNot yet
*kb9vqf got sidetracked with the Wiki :-P
Strangelv:: instead notices tha it's no longer announced on welcoming
kb9vqfShould be
StrangelvWasn't announced when I reconnected
StrangelvI don't have reliable logging in Konversation, and chat logs often contain excellent material to dump into talk pages
Strangelv...Admittedly teh only wiki that I know wher ethis is done is behind an apache door dragon and an NDA
kb9vqfIt'll be up as soon as I get the HTML converter working ;-)
Strangelvhtml converter?
Pikikb9vqf: keep forgetting to mention this, but on Trinity home page -&gt; Download Project Files, 3.5.12 isn't listed, just 3.5.11, and some people will notice this link before they see the Official Releases section further down the nav bar
Pikikb9vqf: mozbot doesn't have a plugin to do the chat logs in html?
kb9vqfIt does them in an XML format
kb9vqfWhich won't work in Firefox
Pikihmm, if it accepts eggdrop-style tcl scripts, there are a couple eggdrop scripts, but i doubt mozbot would accept those
kb9vqfProbably not
kb9vqfIt won't take long to get it working, I just haven't had the time today
kb9vqfAnyone working on the Wiki may want to bookmark this: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/wiki/bin/view/System/TextFormattingRules
kb9vqfLots of good stuff in there
StrangelvThat's more informative that waht I'd been going by.  That should help, whenever I get back to work on hunting down files so I can figure out waht I need to wokr on
Pikikb9vqf: dunno if this will help with the chat logs, but i found http://webscripts.softpedia.com/script/Snippets/ircLOG2HTML-10301.html
Pikinever used it myself, can't say how it works
kb9vqfThat's what I'll be using
*Strangelv doesn't see an equivalent to &lt;BR clear="all"/&gt;, but wonders if &lt;sticky/&gt; could help
kb9vqfI have to massage the mozbot xml log to xchat style
Pikikb9vqf: perhaps if i get a chance at some point, i can setup a mozbot in a private channel and create one that can skip xml and go directly to html
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Pikii'm not a coder, but a chance to learn
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: nice touch with the tbottu welcome :)
*Xu_R|School has to endure another 40 minutes... helpppppppp xD
Pikii didn't know tbottu had a welcome?
kb9vqfPiki: Disconnect from the channel and you will see it when you reconnect
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: it sends the message via /notice, right?
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Xu_R|Schoolknew it. :D
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kb9vqfSee it?
Pikinow i do
kb9vqfI only added it yesterday
Pikiusing /msg, i assume?
Xu_R|Schoolwhen we all netsplit lol
kb9vqf /notify, actually
Xu_R|SchoolPiki: no, via /notice
kb9vqfYes, that
*kb9vqf did a thinko
Pikilol i hope we don't get 100 people joining at once, tbottu may get confused
Xu_R|SchoolPiki: does 15 people count? XD
Xu_R|School(net split last night caused mass d/c and r/c)
kb9vqfTbottu will notify each person in turn
tbottukb9vqf: Sorry, I've no idea what 'will notify each person in turn' might be.
sameliankb9vqf: is any way to disable WYSIWYG on foswiki, for my account ?
kb9vqfsamelian: Maybe
kb9vqfI was looking into that
Pikikb9vqf: i'm talking within a couple seconds, and tbottusees quite a few of them joining at the same time
kb9vqfPiki: Right
kb9vqfhe'll flood the server :-P
kb9vqfThere is still a split second between each join notice
kb9vqfThat's enough
Xu_R|Schoolwheeeeeeeee lol
Xu_R|Schoolo_O speaking of that, my bot just had a d/c
*Xu_R|School goes to fix stuff
kb9vqfsamelian: I can shut down the WYSIWY editor wiki-wide
kb9vqfDo you want me to try that?
kb9vqfI never use it anyway
kb9vqfSeems more trouble than it is worth
samelianmaybe someone want to use it
kb9vqfYes, but it is corrupting the articles
kb9vqfThat's what bugs me
samelianok then, disable it
Xu_R|Schoolfoswiki seems to have a way of screwing over people editing with its wysiwyg editor :P
StrangelvI've been starting wtih WYSIWYG, then disable and fix things it messes up
Strangelv"largely because until the formatting link that was pasted here a few minuets ago I couldn't get some things to wokr otherwise
StrangelvWhat I'd found on my own was a bit more limited
Strangelv"at the moment I'm at wokr stoppage until I can get back ot hunting down files to find out what I need to work on
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: are the servers still down?
Strangelv"Unless someone else finds firles for me to wokr on -- taht would help
kb9vqfBut one just failed
kb9vqfDunno why
kb9vqfIt happened like 30 seconds ago
Xu_R|SchoolI just tried to connect like 30 seconds ago
*Xu_R|School hides behind tbottu
*kb9vqf runs to check the rack
Pikilooks like the one holding the trinity page (just cause i like saying the obvious ;-))
*Xu_R|School doesn't try accessing it anymore from school
Xu_R|SchoolI don't feel like arguing with administration and central office on the basis of their windows logs calling using the internet "hacking"
Xu_R|SchoolI've done it once, and I seriously hold a grudge against my school,
Xu_R|Schoolthey also lied to me about their logs
Xu_R|Schoolthey were like, we got reports that you were trying to use /etc/passwd
Xu_R|Schoolme: I have server logs here. My connection never made it to the server.
Xu_R|Schoolbecause your windows thing blocked me out of it and called it hacking.
*Xu_R|School facepalms them
PikiXu_R: i seriously hold a grudge against anyone that thinks that windows is the best thing in the entire universe and that linux is a virus ant that linux users are radicals who want to take over the world
Pikiand that seems like pretty much everyone these days
Pikiincluding my own mother, who always told me to fight for my own beliefs and is now trying to convince me to use windows
Xu_R|SchoolPiki: not necessarily.
Xu_R|Schooli know people that are not computer geeks that hate windows ;)
PikiXu_R: i've only met one of those, everyone else seems to hate linux
kb9vqfOK, server's back up
Pikiat least here in PA
kb9vqfA lot of people think Linux is for geeks only
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: loaded. nice :D
kb9vqfWYSIWYG editor is disabled
kb9vqfsamelian ^^
Strangelv:: doesn't know anyone in PA who isn't a geek.  Yes, he doesn't know many people theer at all.  How did you guess?
sameliannow I must to learn foswiki syntax :)
Xu_R|Schoollol Strangelv!
samelianfor explain cmake language, I must learn wiki language :))
Pikikb9vqf: really? who would think that? linux is for braindead people who don't know a thing about computers! lol
kb9vqfsamelian: You can enable a different syntax if you want
kb9vqfPiki: Well, KDE4 is not helping there :-P
sameliancmake syntax, maybe? :)
kb9vqfNeither is Gnome
kb9vqfsamelian: Nope, sorry :-P
Xu_R|Schoolsamelian: if it was cmake syntax, we'd have all this converted to cmake already :P
samelianfor sure
Pikithere was a point where linux was geeks-only, the normal user thing is recent
samelianwe convert anything to cmake :)
kb9vqfsamelian: Is it still eating your &lt;/verbatim&gt; tags?
Pikikb9vqf: yeah, GNOME never helped with that, and KDE4 certainly isn't helping either, i'm only surviving KDE4 because i've been a linux user for a few years ;-)
kb9vqfThe only things that kept me from going back to Windows were the $$$$$ needed and the same stupid interface on Windows 7
samelianseems fine now
Xu_R|Schoolsamelian: :: goes on a cmake conversion rampage :: :P
kb9vqfI'll leave the WYSIWYG editor disabled then
Strangelv"So we have someone who's actually using KDE4?  What's theer that's good to cannibalize after the Qt4 migration besides Konqueror?
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: one reason i can use windows: gov license thanks to my dad :D
kb9vqfKDevelop (maybe)
Xu_R|School(well, gov discount &gt;:D)
kb9vqfYeah, but try that with the server editions
Xu_R|Schoolstrangelv: everything. XD
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: I have 2003 and 2008 R2 sitting on my desk at home, unused cause my dad got those for free somehow o.o
kb9vqfDunno how
kb9vqfThose are NOT CHEAP
Xu_R|Schoolof course
Xu_R|Schooldid I mention UNUSED XD
kb9vqfM$ is watching you...
*kb9vqf gets evil grin agani
Pikikb9vqf: i used to like the xp UI, it was the continued unstability and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ pushed me
Xu_R|Schoolscrew MS
Xu_R|SchoolI have openSUSE XD
kb9vqfPiki: Yup
kb9vqfSame here
*Strangelv 's MS Windows migration path hit a dead end when he didn't like the XP licence. He has a still shrinkwrapped 2000 box he bought on EBay he wants to install to a kvm when he has time to figure it out
kb9vqfI found KDE3.5.....then they dumped it :angry:
PikiStrangelv: i don't like kde4, i only use it because i haven't managed to package TDE for my fave distro
Strangelv"I've actually been using KDE singe KDE 2
kb9vqfI've seen KDE2
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: :(
kb9vqfKDE3 is a vast improvement
Strangelv"I understand that you probabyl idon't like it, just noting the potential usefulness of someone looking at it
Xu_R|SchoolI started with KDE3. :D
kb9vqfKDE4 is worse than KDE2
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: LOL ouch
Strangelv"I liked KDE 2 a lot more than GNOME
kb9vqfI have used KDE2 actually
kb9vqfSo I can say that with some confidence
Xu_R|SchoolStrangelv: for me, I actually like GNOME 2 right now...
StrangelvAnd KDE 2 didn't inspire me to want to throw my monitor across the room
Pikii like windows vista better than GNOME
kb9vqfI hate Gnome personally
samelianI using kde from 1.3, if i correct remember
*Xu_R|School claps for samelian :D
*Strangelv claps
kb9vqffor me, KDE4 &lt; Windows 7 &lt; KDE2 &lt; Windows 2000 &lt; KDE3
kb9vqfGnome &lt; KDE2
Strangelv"it's been too long since KDE 2 for me to evaluate it
Xu_R|Schoolme: KDE3 &gt; GNOME &gt; Windows 7 &gt; KDE4
kb9vqfI see a trend
sameliankde2 was great for that times
Strangelv"It was a gradual progression where it mostly kept improwving except for a now missing setting from Konqueror I desperately want back
Xu_R|Schoolkde4 is all the way at the bottom anyway XD
kb9vqfStragelv: Yep.  Then it took a nosedive for the worse
Pikikde3 &gt; windows 7 &gt; windows vista &gt; gnome
Pikignome &gt; kde4
kb9vqfOn the bottom *again* :)
kb9vqfHave you seen KDevelop 4?
*kb9vqf wants to know what ate all the useful toolbar icons
Xu_R|Schoolewww. KDevelop 4.
Pikiyep, i don't like gnome at all, but i don't hate it. i hate kde4
kb9vqf"Activities" are for preschool
kb9vqfNot for software development
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: trololol
Xu_R|Schoolactivities... we're in preschool class. XD
kb9vqfComplete with big button blocks :-P
samelianbut why we hate kde4?
samelianwhat is problem with it?
Pikiunfortunately, most of the "adults" i see still belong in preschool
kb9vqfWastes screen real estate
Xu_R|Schoolsamelian: the graphics is mostly the problem
Xu_R|Schooland the way it handles
kb9vqfMissing context items
samelianthe graphics are themeable :)
Xu_R|Schoolotherwise, it's be great.
Strangelv"KDE 4 took away most of the things that make KDE 3.5 great
sameliani think i do not like the kicker replacement
kb9vqfYou can't get around the lack of "at your fingertips" functionality
Xu_R|Schoolsamelian: I want to see performance improvements, not more eyecandy -__-
kb9vqfNo matter how you theme it
Pikisamelian: slow, too much eye candy, missing stuff from kde3, unstable
Strangelv"it's powerful, flexible, and easily adapted to be what teh user needs to get their work ,life, et c. done
kb9vqfIn KDE3 you can usually access a function with one or two mouse clicks
Strangelv"KDE 4 takes that awapy
Xu_R|SchoolIn all:
kb9vqfIn KDE4 you get to click at *least* three times :)
StrangelvMost of what I wanted to do I couldn't in KDE 4 at all
kb9vqfThat reminds me of using a newer Mac in a store
kb9vqfI counted 7 clicks to  create and delete a folder
Xu_R|Schoolok, ok, let's stop ranting now. poor samelian.
Pikiand i'm sure we could get a theme in kde3 that at least mimicks kde4
kb9vqfThat's easy
Strangelv"That's likely what our permanant icon ought to convey: TDE is what the user needs it to be, and not what someone else wants the user to use
kb9vqfWe'll add an "instant uglification" button :-P
kb9vqfIt'll make every widget 10x bigger
Xu_R|Schoolyes, yes, let's &lt;/rant&gt; now
kb9vqfAnd shrink the fonts
Xu_R|Schoolgood. good.
StrangelvKonqueror in KDE 4 was the one bright spot
*kb9vqf goes back to cursing at Qt4
*samelian are to lazy to write cmake docs :)
*Strangelv happened to have been impressed by that bright spot
Xu_R|Schoolpfft. then rekonq took over :)
kb9vqfStrangelv :Well, maybe you can put a Wiki page up with what was better
Pikii think we should add a bunch of themes to TDE, e.g. kde4 themes, winvista/7, osx, os classic, just for the people who prefer those, but not include them in the main tde, but as extra themes that users can add
Xu_R|Schoolwhich I hope we can make that the default in TDE once tqt for qt4 finishes
Strangelvkb9vqf: that would require me having KDE 4 installed on something again to go back and look
Strangelv"Extra themes is good
StrangelvIt can especially help with people migrating and needing familiarity
Strangelv"it also helps to have teh same wallpaper and startup sound
StrangelvQ: how many of these already exist?
Xu_R|SchoolStrangelv: ever since kde4 took over? like none now
*samelian are scaried every time by error sound :)
samelianbroken glass
Strangelv"That are compatible with KDE 3.x/TDE
*Strangelv used to have a photon torpedo filing for an error sound
PikiStrangelv: not sure if we could get the sounds and wallpapers considering that M$ could come after us with a lawsuit for using copyright material
Strangelv"Something I miss from Plug In for Program Manager (MS Windows 3.1+) was the ability to assign sounds to executables
Xu_R|Schoolkb9vqf: um, the Tim Willianms who just emailed trinity-users, i've decided to import his stuff for now into build.lincomlinux.org and start testing
Xu_R|SchoolI might be better off than before :)
Xu_R|Schoolhey, the bell just rang
Strangelv"We couldn't use those, correct. It would be something to suggest to users, especially ones with the ability to port their probabyl already custom sounds and wallpaper
PikiStrangelv: 3.1 was the best windows, most stable version, and more secure considering one can still find a firewall and antivirus
Pikidownside is no more modern apps for it
Strangelv"When Help started, the Book of Armamants was consulted; when my MIDI sequencer was started David Bowie would say it's not Rock and Roll, but genocide; when I started MS Word President Merkin Muffley would ask me if we had anything like that in the works
Strangelvuntil Windows 2000 my most stable experience with MS Windows was orinal 95, something that confused me until I realised that that was before i had MSIE installed
Pikiyeah, they want everyone to use their braindead browser
Strangelv"Netscape for MS Windows wasn't on par with its Linux version
Pikifirefox is much better than either, unfortunately it's slow loading
StrangelvSomething I learned to do with MSIE that I couldn't do with Mozilla or Netscape was to run multiple instance of ut -- so that when an instance crashed I didn't lose everything all at once
Strangelv"I rely heavily on Firefox 2 still -- firefox 3 has never been stable for me
Pikiand it pulls in a bunch of GTK libs, and i don't use any other gtk
Pikiwhat's ut?
Strangelv"although it got noticeably less bad with 3.5 shortly before 3.6.  It's still a lot less stable than 2.0
Pikiff 2 was slow for me too
Strangelv"firefox 2 is a nightmare memory hog.  It's something I kept in mind when I got a motherboad that can do up to 32 GB of RAM
PikiStrangelv: a few lines up, you mention multiple instances of ut
Strangelv"oh, multiple instances of it (MSIE)
Pikiff3 uses less memory, but is still slow
Pikikonqueror is fast, but doesn't do html very well
kb9vqfKHTML is completely broken
Pikijust discovered rekonq in the Ark repos, gonna see if it works
kb9vqfA lot of modern websites will not work right
Pikiyep, only downside to konqueror is khtml, works great for everything else
kb9vqfOnce Qt4 porting is complete, I plan to use Webkit instead of khtml
Strangelv"I've never found Konquer to be stable as a web browser.  Actually, I've never been impressed by its stability as a file browser either.  It's possible that if I'd run KDE 4 longer I'd have found stability issues with that wversion too.  I should install it sometime as I already have Qt4 running for something anyway
kb9vqfWay in the future though :)
kb9vqfStrangelv: Nice and stable here
kb9vqfAlthough I did fix a lot of crashing bugs in Trinity
Pikithinking of making d3lphin the default filemanager for TDE in ark, though, just to maintain consistency with our kde4 version
StrangelvHow similar are they, given that khtml begat WebKit?
kb9vqfWebKit is maintained by Apple AFAIK
kb9vqfMeaning they *will* make rendering work correctly
kb9vqfkhtml was never properly maintained
Pikikonqueror has always been stable here, even displays an error instead of crashing when khtml failed to load
Pikiworks well with local file management, ftp (never did uploading though), and sftp
StrangelvI must admit that it's a plus when there's notice that something has crashed.  In unix, things are supposed to crash noisely, only in Xorg, they crash like a mouse silently leaving the room
Pikiit helps when it says why it crashed, rather than just saying it crashed
Strangelv"That's nice too, yes
Pikirekonq looks nice, faster than arora, but it's missing a menu bar, can't find how to enable it in my right click menus
kb9vqfGrrr....Qt4 completely gutted QCString
kb9vqfThe original functionality is GONE with respect to null terminators
Pikijust found the rekonq config
Pikikb9vqf: isn't null just a value of '0'?
Pikiperhaps see if that works?
kb9vqfQCString is supposed to automagically add/subtract the length of the null terminator
kb9vqfQ3CString does NOT
kb9vqfI've been having to track down and reimplement the functions that are malfunctioning
kb9vqfIt's not the null == 0 thing ;-)
kb9vqfI dealt with that back on Day 1 ;-)
kb9vqfAh, there we go
kb9vqfMuch bette
sameliankb9vqf: QCString must die anyway :)
Pikiany rekonq users who know how to get the menubar?
samelianas I understand QCString was invented to easy porting from Qt2 to Qt3
kb9vqfsamelian: It's used practically everywhere in Trinity
kb9vqfIt's a slightly enhanced const char * string
samelianyes, I know
kb9vqfSo it actually does have a purpose
kb9vqfif you need to interface to anything C-like
kb9vqfQString has problems because it is Unicode
samelianbut i'm not wrong, QCString::length() is the same thing as strlen()
kb9vqfBut not in Q3CString
samelianthis is bad, actually
kb9vqfThey broke it
kb9vqfI had to fix it
samelianlength() count all characters every time
samelianthis is an useless overhead
kb9vqfYes, I know
kb9vqfI know there are "better" ways of doing things
kb9vqfBut the C API is old
kb9vqfYou probably will need to use a QCString
kb9vqfWhen you do glib integration
samelianactually I used QString instead
samelianthis is recommended
kb9vqfBut you probably used the .ascii() function, right?
kb9vqfThat's a QCString internally
samelianQString do this automatically too
kb9vqfascii() has a lot of overhead
kb9vqfBoth in terms of memory and CPU time
kb9vqfJust FYI
samelianoperator const char* is the same thing
kb9vqfSame conversion
kb9vqfSame overhead
kb9vqfLike I said, I think QCString has its place
kb9vqfBut only for low level stuff
*kb9vqf just got khelpcenter partially working :)
Pikikb9vqf: once i eventually get 3.5.12 packaged and uploaded to the AL repos, i can grab svn and start helping there
Pikiwith testing
kb9vqfSounds great
kb9vqfWe will need lots of testing this go-round
kb9vqfLots of stuff is changing
kb9vqfin the backend that is
kb9vqfsamelian: Speaking of which, how goes libkpower?
Pikii'm hoping i can patch 3.5.12 for our mission control, though, don't know how much has changed since 3.5.10
kb9vqfPiki: Depends on what is used
kb9vqfAs long as you didn't use low level device libraries the patch should be relatively simple
Pikikb9vqf: dunno, haven't looked at the patches yet
kb9vqfYou'll need to tqt convert them most likely
kb9vqfThat involves changing QObject to TQObject, QWidget to TQWidget, etc.
kb9vqfAnd changing things like find("foo") to tqfind("foo")
Pikikb9vqf: i don't think it would, it's for reorganizing kcontrol modules to make it easier for new users
kb9vqfPretty simple
kb9vqfOh, OK
kb9vqfTQt conversion would be the hardest part then
kb9vqfAnd it's mostly just tedious
Pikidunno why the patches are there in the first place, but still
Pikikb9vqf: you'll have to help me convert to tqt, i haven't started coding yet ;-)
kb9vqfWhen you're ready (way in the future I know...) just poke me here
kb9vqfI'll help you
kb9vqfOr maybe by that point others will know about TQt :)
Pikiin fact, once it's converted and stable, i can send in mission control and it's patches
kb9vqfAnd I could probably include them in SVN
kb9vqfAs long as there's a GPL license, and the coding is OK there shouldn't be any problems
Pikii'm rsync'ing our stable repos (need to regenerate the repodata, it disappeared for some reasons), once the 2008.1 isos appear, i can do a vbox install and do screenshots
Xu_Rmwahaha, i iz back
Pikikb9vqf: i'm pretty sure it uses GPLv2, and bero is obsessed with keeping code clean and sane so that things work, so i don't think that will be a problem
sameliankb9vqf: I haven't time to progress on libkpower, at this moment I can call upower methods (like suspend()) and a can read upower properties (like onBattery())
Pikiif it isn't  clean, i can do some work cleaning it up when converting to tqt, once i know how to code
Xu_Rkb9vqf: anything back-breaking in SVN atm? I'm about to start pulling from services.
Xu_R*triggering services
Xu_Rsamelian: do the 3.5.12 tarballs work with your current svn cmake scripts?
Xu_Rbecause i'm going to maintain two versions: 3.5.12 and svn (named
PikiXu_R: using rekonq, apparently on the AL repos, nice UI, and faster than arora, but can't find the menu bar
Xu_RPiki: there is no menubar
Xu_Ruse the settings to the side to access everything
Xu_Rvery lightweight. no baggage.
Pikiyeah, i'm used to a menu bar
Xu_Rbrb snacking
Pikikeeps things a bit organized and quicker (at least for me) than keeping everything under the same button
*Xu_R goes to nom on ramen again :D
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Pikibtw, a menu bar doesn't mean extra baggage, arora has one, and it tries to be as minimal as possible
Pikiit's still not reached 1.0 yet
Pikiso there's still time for it to speed it
samelianXu_R: I have no ideea, I think will not working directly, at least because cmake check for patched qt3
Pikiit == up
Pikiit might work, if the cmake scripts use the same source files as 3.5.12
Pikior maybe with a patch to 3.5.12
Pikion the plus side (for rekonq), facebook now seems to be working normally
*kb9vqf notes that "very lightweight" often == "completely usesless"
Pikijust wish i could remove the fb chat from the site, i have kopete set for that
Pikikb9vqf: not always, as long as it can still function properly, do what the user needs, and support extensions so the user can add what he needs/wants that isn't included, that's a good thing
Pikiit's a matter of how it is developed/designed
kb9vqfHence the "often" word ;-)
kb9vqfI see that used waaayyy too often as an excuse
kb9vqfAnd yes, I agree with you
Pikiarora is slow, and doesn't like fb, but if they fix those and add a way to use extensions, arora would be a great lightweight browser
Pikii find it odd that arora doesn't like fb, though, it uses webkit, and so does rekonq
kb9vqfThe insanity I was referring to usually ends with "xyz feature make the interface too cluttered, let's completely remove it from the application.  Oh and by the way, this makes it so we don't have to do as much in the future" :-P
kb9vqfIt's about what's easiest for the developers
kb9vqfI'm not sure about Arora
*kb9vqf has never used it
kb9vqfAlthough KDE has a long history of patching backend libraries
kb9vqfMaybe they did that with Webkit for rekonq
Pikiwith certain apps, there are things that should always be there, and other things that if they aren't included, they should at least be extensions
kb9vqfFirefox for example is well designed
Pikikb9vqf: i don't think rekonq is actually kde4, i'm pretty sure it's a 3rd part app
kb9vqfWhich might include a patched verison of Webkit
kb9vqfI'm just speculating though
Pikiarora is nice, but slow
Pikiactually, when i installed rekonq, it didn't pull in webkit, it seems to be using webkit as already installed
Pikiwhich would be the same webkit that arora is using on my system
kb9vqfBeats me then
Pikithere could be a bug in arora in how it' using webkit
Pikithis whole time i was thinking that it was my internet connection really slow that was causing the fb and speed issues in arora, but rekonq is going extremely fast, and seems to like fb
kb9vqfArora is GTK based?
Piki(Clear is a horrible ISP, but unfortunately i have no other choice but to rely on my mother's verizon FiOS, and she tends to shut it off when i'm using it cause she's afraid of linux)
Pikino, Qt
Pikithe only GTK app i use is firefox
Pikiand i use it only because of KHTML and website compatibility
kb9vqfIf used wrong it could be really, really slow
kb9vqfAnd it's very easy to use wrong :)
Xu_Rsamelian: fk. I'll try it, but that means I'll have to devel soley on svn right now
Pikiit's slow and heavy, and pulls in GTK libs (obviously), which i shouldn't have to do being that i don't use any other GTK apps
kb9vqfXu_R: Go ahead; I'll try not to break things too badly in SVN
Pikijust takes up extra space that i could otherwise use when i get to heavy packaging
kb9vqfIf it breaks poke me here
Pikithough i dunno, may decide to package GNOME just to shut up the people who keep complaining that we don't have it
Pikiafter TDE, of course ;-)
kb9vqfNaturally :)
Pikiand perhaps some other DE's and WM's\
Pikiso having GTK may come in handy
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*kb9vqf thinks that may be a good idea
kb9vqfLots of GTK apps out there
kb9vqfAnd TDE integrates nicely
Pikithe only reason we have GTK in our repos is for firefox, which is in the repos only because it's so popular
Pikiwe don't include anything GTK on the ISO, however
kb9vqfYou don't have Gimp itself then?
Pikinever bothered to search our repos for it
Pikiturns out we do
Pikii think we include krita by default
Pikii don't do anything with image editing, except resizing and cropping photos photos from the camera
Pikii use gwenview for that
Pikiif there is anyone here who is willing to download Ark's devel ISO and do some packaging of GTK apps, feel free to let us know ;-)
Pikiwe use RPM5, very similiar to RPM4, though i'm pretty sure we use SRPMs on the build server
Pikino public access to build server (i don't have access), but we can always create a temporary  drop point on the webserver via a php page
Xu_Rkb9vqf: started services. hopefully svn won't get pounded too much :)
*Xu_R thinks of mario's "here we go!" voice :P
Pikiimagine mario saying "whop-pop-pop-per" (was a joke at BK when i worked there lol)
Xu_Rkb9vqf: and the nice thing is that I think I have a patched version of build.o.o that allows me to use download-on-demand ready... :D
Xu_Rthat will allow me to include the Update repositories and rolling release repositories of any distribution.
Xu_Rwell, I think i'll stick with the basics of making it build first ;)
Xu_RI'll brb for a while... Sleeping at 2AM does not go well for me.
sameliankb9vqf: I started to document my macros
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MutantTurkeyirc logs now online? nice
kb9vqfGive me a minute or two
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: also, I've implemented the secondary bar, and pretty much converted all the pages you have me, so from here I just need to 1) look over the wiki, some stuff should be in the website. 2) do the frontpage with  3.5.12 features 3) make an about/history page 4) double check and validate everything
kb9vqfI don't have time right this instant unfortunately :-(
kb9vqfWill you be on later on todaty?
MutantTurkeythat fine, I was just letting you know
kb9vqfOK, thanks
MutantTurkeyI should be tonight.
kb9vqfAnd thanks for all the work on it :")
MutantTurkey:) yup
MutantTurkeyI've also contacted David R about Archlinux + Trinity, he has made some progress and i'll be working through bugs with him hopefully
kb9vqfLogs are up
kb9vqfI don't know if they will update automatically yet
kb9vqfAnd there is some work to be done with splitting them month to month
kb9vqfBut they are there :)
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Pikipfft, just hit "CTRL+Shift+T" in rekonq cause i closed a tab by accident, it reloaded all the tabs i've closed, instead of just the last one
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay great!
MutantTurkeyokay I am going to make a list of pages that may/should move to the main site
kb9vqfSounds good
kb9vqfIRC log automatic updates work :)
sameliankb9vqf: I think we must to find someone for cmake conversion
kb9vqftoxic_devil said he'd take a look at your Wiki page
samelianbecause we are only qt developer, our skills can be used for programming
sameliancmake is too simple for us :)
samelianactually cmake can be learn very easy just reading CMakeLists.txt
sameliankb9vqf: send an announce to lists that we recruiting cmake porters
samelianI will mentoring him
MutantTurkeyI can help.
samelianin this, when you ready, I will start to teach you :)
samelianin this case*
kb9vqfsamelian: Is your Wiki article finished then?
kb9vqfI'll send the announce once I have something to refer to
samelianis not, I'm not sure how far I must to go with explanations
samelianI assume that who want to help with cmake, must read cmake docs at first time
kb9vqfSo the process is not straightforward enough to do without reading the CMake docs?
kb9vqfA lot of people will not bother to read those docs
samelianwill be easy to do for usual tasks
MutantTurkeysamelian: okay great, I am nearing website completion, hopefully this week if i am not to busy. I am anxious to work on cmake
samelianis really simple
samelianI think you will need to read a little, to understand basics
kb9vqfWhy don't you put a link to the section(s) you think people should read first
kb9vqfSomething like Read This First:
sameliangood ideea
samelianthe barrier is my poor english, is hard for me to write docs
kb9vqfI understand
sameliani preffer to teach someone with solid english background
kb9vqfJust get the essentials down
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: I have another task for you.....
samelianthen, he can continue my doc
kb9vqfOnce you learn CMake you can clean up samelian's Wiki article :)
MutantTurkeyI better make a list :p
MutantTurkeysamelian: yeah, I can help you with english.
MutantTurkeyfor documentation.
samelianMutantTurkey: you will enjoy when your cmake will be able to compile a big part of trinity :)
Pikiwe have to be able to understand poor english in linux, linux is global and not everyone is good with english ;-)
kb9vqfSo true
samelianI need to learn it, but I have no time to take some formal lessons
MutantTurkeyone trick is to watch american or British tv shows.
Pikithere are translators like Google Translate or AltaVista bablefish (i think that's it), they aren't perfect, but can help
samelianand I'm too lazy to read english grammar books ;)
kb9vqfI've been told they don't work for ru--&gt;en
MutantTurkeyPiki: google translate is my savior for linux. many russian speakers
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: they work well enough
kb9vqfMaybe it was en--&gt;ru
*kb9vqf forgets
MutantTurkeyboth ways I've been okay with.
MutantTurkeyusually its not good grammer
MutantTurkeybut passable.
Pikiyeah, translators don't do grammar well, but they can do words and small phrases decently
Pikitwo problems with TV shows: it can be hard to sound out words for typing sometimes, and while the grammar will be the same between different english-speaking countries, they can sometimes have different slang and figurativeterms
kb9vqfYes, and American TV shows typically slur and utilize bad grammar
Pikiand not everyone uses good grammar
Pikikb9vqf: exactly, and mispronounce an' all dat
kb9vqfYes :)
MutantTurkeywhen is 3.5.13 due? we are on 6th month cycle?
kb9vqfRight now yes
kb9vqfBut the CMake port is a blocker
kb9vqfIt must be finished before 3.5.13 (3.6.0?) can be released
samelianautomake do not working anymore?
kb9vqfsamelian: No
kb9vqfIt broke badly
MutantTurkeyalso what about HAL? i would like to see that go
kb9vqfIt may have to wait
kb9vqfWe'll see where samelian is after the CMake port is finished :)
MutantTurkeyhow long/ how far are we on that?
sameliandepends you you consider "trinity"
samelianwhat you*
kb9vqfI say the entire codebase that is in SVN
samelianthat's big
kb9vqfYes it is
kb9vqfHence my thought that a delay is needed
kb9vqfNow I know some of it is already converted to CMake
Pikiit isn't always good to work on a specific deadline, it can either pushed back and get users mad, or force you to put out a bad release and make users mad
kb9vqfrosegarden, etc.
kb9vqfPiki: Correct
kb9vqfThink of this particular release date as a suggestion
kb9vqfIf the bugs aren't fixed they aren't fixed and we can't release
kb9vqfI want a high quality 3.6.0
MutantTurkey3.6 is: hal gone, updated libraries completely? CMake fully?
kb9vqfCMake for sure
MutantTurkeywhat about new features that users  will actually see.
kb9vqfHAL gone if possible
kb9vqfLots of bugfixes
MutantTurkeyi mean, backend stuff is good. but, honestly? a user doesn't care hal vs udisks
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: They do care about stability
MutantTurkeywhich is I would say #1 importance
kb9vqfI would like to see those bugs in Bugzilla taken care of
kb9vqf*Completely* stabilize 3.6.0
kb9vqfNo more random crashing anywhere :)
Pikiwe don't even put suggested release dates at ark, people tend to read those as definitive
MutantTurkeyhopefully have Arch packages :)
kb9vqfThat follows CMake :)
MutantTurkeyCmake is the blocker because we can't develop if we cannot build.
kb9vqfIf you, toxic_devil, and some others can get CMake finished it would free samelian and I up to work on those other things
kb9vqfFeel free to recruit warm bodies for the CMake task ;-)
samelianmost and hardest cmake tasks was done, actually
sameliannow is just boring :)
samelianright now i'm on trinity built with cmake
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: If you want to put together a CMake recruitment Email I'll forward it to the list
samelianso, is good enough for me :)
kb9vqfsamelian: How is it treating you?  Find any irritating bugs yet?
Pikikb9vqf: i'd say instead of rewriting the HAL code for udev, rewrite it in much the same fashion as tqt, as in make it so that all we need to do to change the hardware backend is create a wrapper for the backend that TDE can plug. dunno if that's doable, but if so it can make things easier
kb9vqfGreat :)
samelianactually small annoing crashes
kb9vqfPiki: That's exactly what we're doing
samelianand very rare, kmail
kb9vqfBacktraces would help
samelianyes, klipper make some strange
sameliancrashing in qt
kb9vqfstack corrupt, etc?
sameliansomething about mime
sameliancrashing when I select something from qt3 assistant
MutantTurkeyI can put together an email, what mailing list?
samelianthat's really annoying
kb9vqfSend it to trinity-announce
MutantTurkeyAlso, are we trying to recruit any qt devels? jw
kb9vqfI'll proofread it and sent it out
MutantTurkeyah I'll shoot it past you and you can email it.
samelianqt3 devels are very rare :)
kb9vqfQt devs in general
MutantTurkeyall dinosaurs now :p
kb9vqfGood ones that is :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yeah.  I've made alot of friends with linux, maybe be some help if any are qt devels
samelianas far I know, I and kb9vqf are last mohicans  :)
kb9vqfI hope not!
samelianactually for me is the same, i'm an old programmer
samelianso no matter to much the framework
kb9vqfThat's the way it should be IMHO
sameliani'm not exactly a C++ guru, but is enough for usual tasks
kb9vqfThat's fine
kb9vqfI'm mostly handling the really weird stuff most people see once in a lifetime
MutantTurkeyI am just a C programmer, I have no formal training though
MutantTurkeyjust bumming around and patching stuff.
samelianhowever, about cmake, the big scary tasks like kdelibs, kdebase, kdevelop and quanta are done
sameliannow we need to finish the small applications
samelianI don't expect much troubles with it
samelianactually kopete is partial done, but I will finish it myself
MutantTurkeywhat version broke automake?
MutantTurkeysamelian: will it be mostly the same for each application? i can do the grunt work
samelianpretty much
samelianwill be almost copy/paste, copy/paste
samelianyou just must follow some rules
samelianI created some cmake template files, for usual tasks
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I don't know much to say, I'll keep it short.
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: I don't know.  Something after Ubuntu Maverick
kb9vqfAnd short is OK
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay I've emailed you.
field_itdid my msgs get through?
field_itI'll post'em again..
field_itproblem is: the trinity window-manager entry (name) in the drop down menu of ?dm does not match the name in debian. I'd like to fix this, get rid of the warning "name not available any longer"..
field_itwhere are the menu entries created?
field_itin debian kde3 is now called trinity, in ubuntu it's called kde3..
field_it I need it either way.. identical..
field_itgot it
Pikifield_it: i think you would need to look up it up for your DM, they do things different
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Sent
Pikiand the packager for debian/ubuntu would need to fix the name in the packager
Pikiin the packages*
sameliankb9vqf: pls tell me syntax for tables, for foswiki
kb9vqfsamelian: | Column 1 | Column 2
kb9vqfsamelian: | Column 1 | Column 2 |
kb9vqf| Data1 | Data 2 |
field_itPiki: it's just a file in /usr/share/xsessions/
field_itrename the file appropriately, change the name directive inside the file accordingly and you're done :)
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: woah. new theme for the Trinity wiki caught me by surprise - used to seeing too much blue ;)
kb9vqfIt came with the upgrade
kb9vqfIs it good or bad?
Xu_Rvery good. the last one was an eyesore.
kb9vqfGlad to hear it :)
Xu_Roh s*** my workers died
Xu_Rno wait... my scheduler.
Space_Manlol, you must feed your workers
Xu_Rmy ARM and x86_64 workers are failing D:
Pikiyou need a new datebook for 2011, your old 2010 is full
Xu_RAHHHHH. I sent my scheduler into heart attack mode by restarting it too many times &gt;_&lt;
*Xu_R finally fixed his scheduler - in the process, added an ia64 arch
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: great saw the email
kb9vqfNow we'll see if anyone responds :)
Xu_RMutantTurkey: I'm guessing you were the person who wrote the email? :P
kb9vqfYes he was
Xu_Rnice nice.
MutantTurkeyXu_R: yes sir
MutantTurkeyhad my father check it first :P he is quite good at sending out annoucements
Xu_Rniceee :D
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: what would you say to a "developers profile" page? http://www.archlinux.org/developers/
MutantTurkeyI think it would be good so we could have a solid contact list.
MutantTurkeyfor example, I had no idea someone else was working on Arch. contacting people directly is often helpful.
Xu_RMutantTurkey: as people come and go, will we always remember to update the page? :|
MutantTurkeywell look
MutantTurkeythe trick is: assign a website maintainer
MutantTurkeyobviously the solution, so it won't be long over due like this time.
Pikiwhat if the site maintainer goes? then who takes care of it?
MutantTurkeya maintainer will a) keep it updated b) add/remove based on events and such c) be composed of a single or team of people (size of it) d) it keeps the developers working
MutantTurkeyPiki: you get a new one.
MutantTurkeyand site maintainers, do come and go. same as developers and users.
MutantTurkeybut by assigning someone the position, it becomes their responsability
Pikiwell, sometimes it could be awhile before we notice they're gone, and they might not know they're about to disappear until something comes up and may not have the time to notify us
MutantTurkeya while before we notice? I was thinking someone who is a regular.
kb9vqfIf this is the case then the list should be maintained on a Wiki page
MutantTurkeyalso again, it is their job to notify us if they cannot handle it.
MutantTurkeyI just think assigning jobs is a sure way to get stuff done
Pikialso again, something may come up and they may not have the time to notify us
MutantTurkeythen they are gone?
MutantTurkeyit is not such a problme.
MutantTurkeythe website isn't updated often
MutantTurkeyjust for new information / annoucements.
MutantTurkeyalso, that is alot of ifs and mays
kb9vqfNow now, be nice :)
*Xu_R just got an email about the GA of F15 Alpha 1 that's currently on the serverbeach
MutantTurkeyi mean, we can't take into all factors for anything. alot can happen, and yes people come and go, but by assigning someone the duty, there is a better chance at it being updated.
Xu_RMutantTurkey is very confident in his views ;)
Pikii agree with kb9vqf, if we do make a page like that, we should do it on the wiki
Pikithat way, we don't have to worry about if the webmaster disappears, someone else can remove them
MutantTurkeyPiki: again, you are making the "webmaster" job sound complicated.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf would still have access obviously to it. it is his server. simple as adding or removing a few lines from a file.
Pikino, i'm just taking into account if someone disappeared
kb9vqfI'm the founder
MutantTurkeythen you move them to inactive/past members.
kb9vqfI will always be here :)
MutantTurkeywhat if you dissapear?
MutantTurkeywhat if .
Pikiand webmastering can be complicated, i am a webmaster
MutantTurkeyPiki: we are keeping it extremely simple.
kb9vqfWhat if a bus hit me tomorrow?
MutantTurkeywell. we better just quit while we are ahead
kb9vqfLet's keep things in the realm of "likely" please :)
Pikii always try to be prepared for the unexpected
MutantTurkeysince something may happen to any of us at any given time.
MutantTurkeylet us just quit.
kb9vqfI do understand
kb9vqfBut the simple fact is the services are running on my equipment
Xu_Rkb9vqf: You better not be hit by a bus! &gt;:
kb9vqfThere is always a weak link/choke point/whatever you want to call it
Pikiyes, and we need to be prepared for those to keep things running
Pikiotherwise, things will fall apart at some point
Pikisure, we can't predict everything
kb9vqfI look at it this way; if I can no longer maintain Trinity and host the services I have then I would relinquish control of the fork
Pikibut we should do our best to prepare
kb9vqfBut for now that is not my intention!
MutantTurkeyand for now, i intend to webmaster
kb9vqfFine with me :)
MutantTurkeybasically that whole long slew was about how I'd like to be the webmaster.
kb9vqfI appreciate the help
MutantTurkey because its obvious things are hecktic around here, you are busy and don't have time. my hobby is doing internet stuff. i have alot of time.
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MutantTurkeyokay, kb9vqf i have a list of potential things i think should be moved to the website, or revised in the wiki.
MutantTurkeythe Roadmap and ToDo are in effect the same, with similar purpose. It would be better to combine them, having them on the website means it is easier for users to see progress and future improvements. (this could also mean just a direct link to the wiki)
Xu_Roh. my. god. Epoch: 30000000 D: that's terrible
Xu_Rsorry, just had to put that out there. &gt;_&lt;
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: OK
kb9vqfDou you have the website running now?
kb9vqfThe test one that is?
kb9vqfI didn't get a chance to look at it yet:
MutantTurkeyI've got to help my father purchase a laptop for his work.
MutantTurkeyI might be on later.
MutantTurkeyjust let me know what you think
Xu_R"A Big thank you to all who have helped blah blah blah Lorem Ipsum Lorem Ipsum ask kb. Thanks!"
Xu_R+1 :P
kb9vqfOf course it will need editing ;-)
kb9vqfBut overall I'm looking at design and navigation for now
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: We have mailing lists twice
kb9vqfI'd kind of like a "Contact" or "Support" tab where we can have the IRC information
kb9vqfAlso, a "Screenshots" tab would be nice
kb9vqfAnd maybe "Supported Distributions"
kb9vqfAnd a "Home" tab perhaps
kb9vqfOtherwise it looks good
Pikikb9vqf: maybe you can setup an email for you, samelian, and an email for the entire TDE team and have an email form on the site?
MutantTurkeyyeah sorry, i Just copied the links over
MutantTurkeystill are replacing them.
kb9vqfPiki: Sounds like a good idea
kb9vqfAlso, I wonder if an online IRC chat window is a good idea or not?
kb9vqfUnder the "Support" tab :)
kb9vqfJust a thought
MutantTurkeyredirect them to webchat.freenode.net
MutantTurkeywebchat is great, i use it at school. straight foreward
kb9vqfThat's all I was looking for
kb9vqfAn easy way for an IRC novice to ask questions
MutantTurkeyso, 1)supported distros YES  2) home? TDE logo sends you home 3) screen shots definitely 4) Contact/Support yes good idea
Pikinot everyone knows to use the logo as a link to home, took me a long time to figure that out ;-)
kb9vqfI would not have though of that either
Pikiwe can use the freenode qwebirc to create an embedded webirc for the site that would auto-direct to this channel when it connects to freenode, maybe even set a custom nick
Pikijust an idea
kb9vqfAsking people for a nick before connection would be a good ide
kb9vqfAlso a little checkbox "I agree to the terms and conditions and will be polite"
kb9vqfBefore it allows a connection ;-)
Xu_Rsamelian~ ah crap, he always leaves when I want to ask a question.
Pikikb9vqf: the custom nick can be set to changeable
Xu_Rah, nevermind. found the answer via the ml
Pikii don't think it allows an "I agree to ..." box, but it does have recaptcha
Pikiit doesn't need a preset nick, it's optional
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: eh. I disagree.
MutantTurkeythat is overboard.
MutantTurkeyadding widgets to the page just isn't really appealing and loading java/whatever applets can be slow. but i may be wrong.
MutantTurkeyI think better would be a link to "click here to access the IRC" and link to it easily. maybe set the channel and everything
MutantTurkeyPiki, Xu_R, kb9vqf: can you all send me a few pictures of your Trinity Desktops? (with windows and such, but also one of just desktop) for the screenshots page? I'd like to get some variety.
PikiMutantTurkey: if you can do the ark linux packages for me ;-)
Xu_RMutantTurkey: I'll do it in a little bit. I've got a Unity Linux VM instance running and i'm trying to sort out Qt3 stuff right now.
Pikihaven't had a chance to finish my build server
Xu_RDo you mind if I just throw them in trinity-devel?
Xu_R'll make sure to make the subject "For MutantTurkey" XD
Xu_R(valentine's day special trololol)
MutantTurkeysure thing :D
MutantTurkeybe mine? :p
MutantTurkeyyeah over the ml or just at me, MutantTurkey@gmail so whatever works
Xu_Rhehe :P
Xu_Ranyone know what the mandriva version macro is? mdkversion or something? &gt;_&gt;
Xu_Rnever mind, found it. guessed it right ;)
Pikianybody in PA? i need a good psychiatric institution to put my mom in. everything bad that happens is automatically me, not her or the poor designers of the tech she uses, but me, and there's no convincing her otherwise, even if i never touched it, and i'm not dealing with it any more
Pikii need a place that will get her FIXED
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Gingerbread-Manhello all :-)
Gingerbread-Mangeussing at this time of night the channel is dead ....
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Gingerbread-Manhi Space_Man
*TokRa has noticed: Trinity DE has been mentionned on http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/linux/113479/
MutantTurkeyPikii I am
MutantTurkeyGingerbread-Man: yea everyone is asleep
MutantTurkeythis is much to early for me anyway
Space_Manhi Gingerbread-Man
Space_ManI'm awake ;)
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toxic_devilTokRa: &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1074;
TokRatoxic_devil: &#1079;&#1072;&#1075;&#1083;&#1103;&#1085;&#1080; &#1085;&#1072; http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/linux/113479/
TokRa&#1090;&#1072;&#1084; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082; &#1088;&#1072;&#1079; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086; &#1050;&#1044;&#1025;3
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1103; &#1089;&#1084;&#1086;&#1090;&#1088;&#1077;&#1083; &#1090;&#1099; &#1078;&#1077; &#1084;&#1085;&#1077; &#1074; &#1086;&#1092; &#1074; &#1078;&#1072;&#1073;&#1073;&#1077;&#1088; &#1089;&#1089;&#1099;&#1083;&#1082;&#1091; &#1082;&#1080;&#1085;&#1091;&#1083;&#1072;
TokRa914 &#1087;&#1086;&#1089;&#1077;&#1097;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1081; &#1086;&#1090;&#1090;&#1091;&#1076;&#1072;
TokRa&#1080; &#1089;&#1091;&#1076;&#1103; &#1087;&#1086; &#1083;&#1086;&#1075;&#1092;&#1072;&#1081;&#1083;&#1072;&#1084; &#1089;&#1077;&#1088;&#1074;&#1077;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074;, &#1085;&#1072;&#1088;&#1086;&#1076; &#1080;&#1089;&#1086;&#1096;&#1082;&#1080; &#1082;&#1072;&#1095;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090; &#1087;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1086;&#1103;&#1085;&#1085;&#1086; :)
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toxic_devilTokRa: &#1076;&#1072; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1082;&#1072;&#1095;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090; &#1090;&#1086; &#1082;&#1072;&#1095;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;
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toxic_devilTokRa: &#1091; &#1085;&#1080;&#1093; &#1078;&#1077; &#1076;&#1077;&#1074;&#1077;&#1083;&#1086;&#1087;&#1077;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074; &#1085;&#1077; &#1093;&#1074;&#1072;&#1090;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;
toxic_devil&#1072; &#1082;&#1090;&#1086; &#1091;&#1084;&#1077;&#1077;&#1090; &#1086;&#1085;&#1080; &#1085;&#1077; &#1095;&#1091;&#1093;&#1072;&#1102;&#1090;&#1089;&#1103;
toxic_devil&#1080;&#1073;&#1086; &#1102;&#1079;&#1072;&#1102;&#1090; 4 - &#1077; &#1082;&#1077;&#1076;&#1099;
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TokRa4-&#1077; &#1101;&#1090;&#1086; &#1085;&#1077; &#1082;&#1077;&#1076;&#1099;, &#1072; &#1075;&#1072;&#1083;&#1086;&#1096;&#1080;
TokRa&#1085;&#1072;&#1076;&#1077;&#1090;&#1099;&#1077; &#1085;&#1072; &#1074;&#1072;&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1082;&#1080;
TokRa&#1080;&#1085;&#1072;&#1095;&#1077; &#1089;&#1093;&#1077;&#1084;&#1091; &#1089; akonadi &#1085;&#1077; &#1085;&#1072;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1105;&#1096;&#1100;
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TokRa&#1080; &#1077;&#1097;&#1105; &#1085;&#1072; &#1082;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1099;&#1083;&#1103;&#1093;
TokRa&#1082;&#1072;&#1088;&#1090;&#1080;&#1085;&#1072; &#1084;&#1072;&#1089;&#1083;&#1086;&#1084; :)
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1072;&#1075;&#1072; &#1085;&#1077; &#1075;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;
toxic_devil&#1073;&#1083;&#1080;&#1085; &#1091; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1077;&#1082;&#1090;&#1072; &#1088;&#1077;&#1082;&#1083;&#1072;&#1084;&#1099; &#1085;&#1077;&#1090;&#1091;
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toxic_devilTokRa: &#1079;&#1085;&#1072;&#1077;&#1096;&#1100;
toxic_devil&#1103; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1090;&#1086; &#1090;&#1072;&#1082; &#1074; &#1086;&#1087;&#1077;&#1085;&#1089;&#1086;&#1088;&#1089; &#1089;&#1086;&#1086;&#1073;&#1097;&#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1074;&#1077; &#1088;&#1072;&#1079;&#1086;&#1095;&#1072;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1083;&#1089;&#1103;(((
*TokRa &#1089;&#1072;&#1084;&#1072; &#1074; &#1089;&#1077;&#1073;&#1077; &#1088;&#1072;&#1079;&#1086;&#1095;&#1072;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1083;&#1072;&#1089;&#1100;: &#1087;&#1086;&#1084;&#1085;&#1080;&#1090;&#1089;&#1103;, &#1074;&#1077;&#1089;&#1085;&#1086;&#1081; &#1089;&#1086;&#1073;&#1080;&#1088;&#1072;&#1083;&#1072;&#1089;&#1100; web &#1088;&#1077;&#1089;&#1091;&#1088;&#1089; Trinity &#1089;&#1086;&#1079;&#1076;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;, &#1087;&#1077;&#1088;&#1077;&#1087;&#1080;&#1089;&#1099;&#1074;&#1072;&#1083;&#1072;&#1089;&#1100; &#1089; Timothy &#1087;&#1086; &#1101;&#1090;&#1086;&#1084;&#1091; &#1087;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;&#1076;&#1091;, &#1085;&#1086; &#1087;&#1086; &#1084;&#1085;&#1086;&#1075;&#1080;&#1084; &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1095;&#1080;&#1085;&#1072;&#1084; (&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1100; &#1074; &#1090;&#1086;&#1084; &#1095;&#1080;&#1089;&#1083;&#1077;) &#1101;&#1090;&#1086; &#1090;&#1072;&#1082; &#1080; &#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1083;&#1086;&#1089;&#1100; &#1085;&#1072;&#1084;&#1077;&#1088;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1103;&#1084;&#1080; :(
TokRa&#1040; &#1090;&#1077;&#1087;&#1077;&#1088;&#1100; Timothy &#1084;&#1077;&#1085;&#1103; &#1087;&#1086;&#1093;&#1086;&#1078;&#1077; &#1080;&#1075;&#1085;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;&#1088;&#1091;&#1077;&#1090;: &#1086;&#1073;&#1080;&#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1089;&#1103;, &#1085;&#1072;&#1074;&#1077;&#1088;&#1085;&#1086;&#1077; :(
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1076;&#1072; &#1085;&#1091; &#1085;&#1077;
toxic_devil&#1091; &#1084;&#1085;&#1091; &#1088;&#1077;&#1073;&#1103;&#1090;&#1072; &#1077;&#1073;&#1080;&#1083;&#1076;&#1099; &#1085;&#1072; &#1073;&#1072;&#1079;&#1086;&#1074;&#1091;&#1102; &#1089;&#1080;&#1089;&#1090;&#1077;&#1084;&#1091; &#1089;&#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1083;&#1080; &#1087;&#1086;&#1076;&#1087;&#1080;&#1083;&#1080;&#1083;&#1080;
toxic_devil&#1074;&#1086;&#1090; &#1096;&#1072; &#1074;&#1088;&#1086;&#1076;&#1077; &#1089;&#1072;&#1084;&#1077;&#1083;&#1080;&#1072;&#1085; &#1085;&#1072; &#1074;&#1080;&#1082;&#1080; &#1076;&#1086;&#1083;&#1078;&#1077;&#1085; &#1074;&#1099;&#1083;&#1086;&#1078;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100; &#1084;&#1072;&#1085;&#1091;&#1072;&#1083; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086;&#1073; &#1089;&#1100;&#1092;&#1082;&#1077; &#1087;&#1080;&#1089;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;
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kb9vqfWhy are you upset TokRa_upset?
MutantTurkeyI'll be gone all weekend on a trip to pittsburgh, If i have access to a machine i can ssh and keep working.
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="ChanServ" time="2011-02-11T04:56:58Z">+o tbottu </mode>
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*TokRa pings tbottu
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*TokRa salutes Piki
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="ChanServ" time="2011-02-11T15:15:55Z">+o tbottu </mode>
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="calvino.freenode.net" time="2011-02-11T15:27:16Z">+o kb9vqf </mode>
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-11T15:27:17Z">+i </mode>
tbottuI just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly.  Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes
tbottuI just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly.  Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes
tbottuI just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly.  Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes
*tbottu was going to say 'I just saw a lot of joins happen very quickly. Because of that I set this channel's mode to be Invite Only... I'll set it -i in 5 minutes' but has said it too many times today already
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-11T15:32:17Z">-i </mode>
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*Strangelv has a friend wvho's struggling in vait to turn off the minotior power off. It messes up her keyboard video mouse adapter which seems to not work again until one or both machines ar erebooted...
*Strangelv looks in the bug tracker, but doesn't see anything that's clearyl the problem, let alone a wokraround
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toxic_devilsamelian: &#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1074;&#1077;&#1090;
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1085;&#1091;&#1078;&#1085;&#1072; &#1090;&#1074;&#1086;&#1103; &#1087;&#1086;&#1084;&#1086;&#1096;&#1100;
samelianlater, now I must to go
toxic_devilsamelian: ok
toxic_devilsamelian: configure: WARNING: You are attempting to compile Trinity without the Trinity Qt Interface installed. Please install libtqtinterface-dev and try again!
toxic_devil&#1074;&#1089;&#1077; &#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;&#1086;&#1074;&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1085;&#1086;
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TokRatoxic_devil: &#1072; &#1085;&#1077; &#1085;&#1072;&#1076;&#1086; &#1088;&#1072;&#1079;&#1074;&#1077; &#1091;&#1082;&#1072;&#1079;&#1099;&#1074;&#1072;&#1090;&#1100;, &#1075;&#1076;&#1077; &#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;&#1086;&#1074;&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1086;, &#1085;&#1072;&#1087;&#1088;&#1080;&#1084;&#1077;&#1088; --with-tqt=/&#1087;&#1072;&#1087;&#1082;&#1072;/&#1082;&#1091;&#1076;&#1072;/&#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072;&#1085;&#1086;&#1074;&#1083;&#1077;&#1085;&#1086; &#1080;&#1083;&#1080; &#1085;&#1077;&#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1074; &#1101;&#1090;&#1086;&#1084; &#1088;&#1086;&#1076;&#1077;?
toxic_devilTokRa: &#1085;&#1077; &#1074; &#1101;&#1090;&#1086;&#1084; &#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1086;
toxic_devil&#1084;&#1085;&#1091; &#1088;&#1072;&#1079;&#1088;&#1072;&#1073; &#1082;&#1086;&#1088;&#1086;&#1095;&#1077; &#1085;&#1091;&#1078;&#1077;&#1085;
kb9vqfStrangelv: Xorg power management is strange to say the least
kb9vqfI don't think Trinity has any control over it
toxic_devilkb9vqf: hi
toxic_devilkb9vqf: see??
kb9vqfIs this from SVN or the 3.5.12 tarballs?
toxic_devilkb9vqf: yes
kb9vqfIs it from SVN?
toxic_devilkb9vqf: it is from svn
kb9vqfDid you install tqtinterface, arts, and kdelibs from SVN as well?
kb9vqfAnd did you use CMake?
toxic_devilkb9vqf: wait
toxic_devilI'm not doing it
toxic_devilMy friend is doing
kb9vqfOh, OK
kb9vqfIt looks like kdelibs is not installed
toxic_deviltqtinterface,kdelibs from SVN
toxic_devilwithout arts
toxic_devil./configure ... --without-arts
toxic_devilkdelibs and tqtinterface over cmake
kb9vqfAnd they were all installed to the same prefix?
kb9vqfsamelian: Ever seen this with CMake? ^^^
kb9vqf"checking if UIC has KDE plugins available... no"
sameliankb9vqf: what?
kb9vqfsamelian: He seems to be running into the UIC KDE plugins problem when attempting to build kdebase from SVN
kb9vqfI have not seen this before
kb9vqftoxic_devil: You are building with Qt3 correct?
kb9vqfYour friend that is
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toxic_devilsamelian: c qt &#1074;&#1089;&#1077; &#1074;&#1087;&#1086;&#1088;&#1103;&#1076;&#1082;&#1077;
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1077;&#1089;&#1090;&#1100; &#1087;&#1088;&#1072;&#1074;&#1080;&#1083;&#1100;&#1085;&#1086;?
sameliantoxic_devil: you using cmake or automake?
kb9vqfsamelian: CMake
samelianwhat is problem, actually?
toxic_devilkdelibs and tqtinterface over cmake
samelianbut what is the problem?
toxic_devil&#1042;&#1099; &#1095;&#1086; &#1091;&#1087;&#1086;&#1088;&#1086;&#1083;&#1080;&#1089;&#1100; ???
toxic_devil&#1072;&#1074;&#1090;&#1086;&#1082;&#1086;&#1085;&#1092; &#1091;&#1078;&#1077; &#1091;&#1084;&#1077;&#1077;&#1090; &#1087;&#1072;&#1088;&#1072;&#1084;&#1077;&#1090;&#1088;&#1099; &#1074;&#1080;&#1076;&#1072; -DWITH_*=ON ? ))
toxic_devil&#1082;&#1091; &#1082;&#1091; &#1082;&#1091;
samelianif you pass parameter -DWITH_*=ON to configure script, this not meaning that you using cmake :)
sameliancmake don't use configure
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1086;&#1076;&#1085;&#1091; &#1084;&#1080;&#1085;&#1091;&#1090;&#1091;
toxic_devil&#1103; &#1095;&#1086; &#1090;&#1086; &#1085;&#1077; &#1087;&#1086;&#1081;&#1084;&#1091; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082; &#1086;&#1085; &#1089;&#1086;&#1073;&#1080;&#1088;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090;
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1084;&#1086;&#1081; &#1076;&#1088;&#1091;&#1075; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1083;&#1080;&#1083;&#1089;&#1103; &#1074; &#1082;&#1086;&#1085;&#1089;&#1086;&#1083;&#1100;(((
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1074;&#1086;&#1086;&#1073;&#1097;&#1077;&#1084;
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1085;&#1072;&#1084; &#1085;&#1077; &#1093;&#1074;&#1072;&#1090;&#1072;&#1077;&#1090; &#1089;&#1083;&#1086;&#1074; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086;&#1073; &#1086;&#1073;&#1100;&#1103;&#1089;&#1085;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100; &#1095;&#1090;&#1086; &#1084;&#1099; &#1089;&#1076;&#1077;&#1083;&#1072;&#1083;&#1080;
toxic_devilsamelian: &#1103; &#1076;&#1091;&#1084;&#1072;&#1102; &#1084;&#1099; &#1089;&#1072;&#1084;&#1080; &#1089;&#1087;&#1088;&#1072;&#1074;&#1080;&#1084;&#1089;&#1103;
kb9vqfthanks for handling that :)
toxic_devilkb9vqf: ^^
toxic_devilkb9vqf: I hope we have of this is that something will
kb9vqfI don't know much about CMake myself
toxic_devilkb9vqf: Learn Russian :-D
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sameliankb9vqf: trinity have any class for manipulating sockets?
sameliani mean, resolving name and connect
kb9vqfsamelian: Yes
samelianit's easy to use system calls, but I want to use trinity API when is possible
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*TokRa detects MutantTurkey's presence !
MutantTurkeyi luckily have ssh setup so i can work on linux while away from home
MutantTurkeythere is almost zero php work, just an include for the header and footer. the top panel and link bar are both defined with css.
MutantTurkeyother than that, straight up normal html.
TokRaI see
MutantTurkeythe website is slow enough already, i saw no reason to make it even worse. Tim mentioned that simplicity was essential
TokRaWhich is the goal to achieve?
MutantTurkeythe pages are going to be relatively static.
*TokRa 'd like to see some visual layout, a pictured design if available, to get the main idea and put it on the backend
TokRashould there be some content management?
MutantTurkeyi say no.
MutantTurkeythe thing with a CMS is that  is is just going to make everything more complicated.
MutantTurkeythese web pages don't really change often.
MutantTurkeythe pages are laid out simply enough to edit by hand.
MutantTurkeyI would understand if we were constantly updating, but the only updates are releases.
MutantTurkeyI think for such an simple website, there is no point of putting a whole CMS on it.
TokRaif so, is there a need to change the provided content at all?
TokRaMutantTurkey: your web version looks nice enough to me
MutantTurkeythe code is beautiful
MutantTurkeywell simple at least. I think we need a modern site, but don't need to use any sort of backend.
MutantTurkeyespecially since the web server is already slow as heck :/
MutantTurkeythe header has all the links, so it takes care of the problem.
TokRaand my objective would be... ?
MutantTurkeyno idea.
MutantTurkeyI'm not sure why Tim thought i needed help.
*TokRa neither
MutantTurkeyi understand his concern. because I am not good at php.
MutantTurkeybut we don't really need anything complicated for this project.
TokRaI realize, the php programming is not even needed
MutantTurkeyhow else can we easily include header and footer?
TokRaI mean, the complicated programming
MutantTurkeysamelian is helping me out with css when i have questions. from here mostly though, the layout is finished.
MutantTurkeyI am working on adding the content and converting pages.
MutantTurkeyI was also thinking about transferring certain pages from the wiki to the website, since some don't really belong on the wikil
*TokRa has nothing to do with this then? If I have understood you correctly.
MutantTurkeyI don't think I need your help at this point.
MutantTurkeyif Tim and I decide that we need something more complicated I will ask you.
MutantTurkeyI'm off to eat dinner. Hopefully i can stop in later.
Xu_RARGHH. the Mandriva packager that tired to create Trinity rpms - I'm just looking at them and tearing my hair out &gt;_&lt;
Xu_Rthey aren't bad
Xu_Rbut the Epoch: 600000000 breaks installations &gt;_&lt;
kb9vqfSounds like me many years ago
Xu_Rcorrection: 300000001.
Xu_Radgbfuoasdbf apparently previous mandriva maintainer didn't know how to use it.
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<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="ChanServ" time="2011-02-12T18:40:55Z">+o tbottu </mode>
<mode channel="#trinity-desktop" nick="tbottu" time="2011-02-12T18:42:35Z">+o kb9vqf </mode>
Xu_Rwb kb9vqf
kb9vqfOh, welcome back :)
kb9vqfSlight network outage last night
kb9vqfSeems my ISP did not do what they were supposed to do :-P
Xu_Rdo they ever XD
Xu_Rkb9vqf: i've been making progress: arts and tqtinterface for fedora and mandriva are going well. still have to fix opensuse, but that shouldn't be a problem
kb9vqfGlad to hear it
Xu_Rsamelian: can you add a dependency check for cmake on arts? It needs to check for the existence of ltdl.h so that it doesn't fail compiling later
Xu_Rkb9vqf: spec restructuring seems to be a big success right now :D once I hit kdebase3, that's the hard part :(
kb9vqfYes it is
kb9vqfWait until you get to kdepim :-P
Xu_Roh jeez. xD
samelianXu_R: i will
Xu_Rty samelian :D
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toxic_devilhi allllllllll
toxic_devilrussian like vodka
toxic_deviland like TDE
toxic_devilTDE &amp; Vodka = Friendship