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* kb9vqf stays offline for now due to buggy webirc connection
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kb9vqfNew logs at http://trinitydesktop.org/irc/logs_current.html
kb9vqfformatting is cleaner/easier to read
kb9vqfAnd best of all, tbottu shouldn't drop off the channel every week like before :)
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 69 from system to ubuntu.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=69 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Jaunty AMD64 LiveCD Boot Failure
MutantTurkeynice it works.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so we are all set for the whole bugwatch right?
kb9vqfI believe so...
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: lets hope i can clone this then...
MutantTurkeyI rebooted my connection, still seems to cut out pretty fast
kb9vqfThere are a lot of files there
kb9vqfI have noticed similar behaviour on my cell phone link as well
MutantTurkeyhmmm it seemed that if i do ctrl+z (i forget what that does, freeze the program in midair i think) and then do fg it will start working agian.
kb9vqf(granted not with git, but just with normal downloads)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yes, this is my cell connection :P
MutantTurkeycould i just download the raw files?
MutantTurkeyclone onto my server, then wget the files :P
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: your connection also seems slow
kb9vqfI don't know if that will work
MutantTurkeyi'll try it nonetheless.
kb9vqfwould it be easier to send over the files you want uploaded in a tar file and I will commit them?
MutantTurkeylets see if this works then do that.
kb9vqfmy connection may very well be slow :-P
MutantTurkeythis is working so far.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay this is not going to work
MutantTurkeyI will tar it up.
MutantTurkeyI do not have a way to email you however.
MutantTurkeycan I pm you a link to my website of the tarball?
MutantTurkeyactually no idea how i can do that D:
kb9vqfwell, it can wait I suppose
MutantTurkeybecause I am tethered i don't know my ip hrm hold up
kb9vqfwhen will you be on a better connection?
kb9vqfit can wait until then I would think :)
MutantTurkeyok :{
MutantTurkeyactually i'll see what i can do
kb9vqfit's up to you
MutantTurkeyno go.
MutantTurkeyI don't have any way to upload it.
kb9vqfIt's OK
kb9vqfdon't waste your time
kb9vqfI'll see you on Tuesday :)
MutantTurkeywait i think i have it
MutantTurkeynevermind again.
kb9vqfLike I said don't waste your time
kb9vqfHere's an idea
kb9vqfDo you think we could prioritize the bugs by difficulty?
kb9vqfI know the difficulty isn't set in stone, but simple malfunctions could probably be fixed first
kb9vqf(apparently simple that is)
kb9vqfif you want to go through the bugtracker and start making an Etherpad list of simple bugs I would appreciate it
MutantTurkeyhmmm wait we can another boolean reight?
MutantTurkeyi'll see what i can do
kb9vqfwell I was just thinking a separate list on the Etherpad
MutantTurkeywe started that stuff
kb9vqfordered by estimated difficulty, simplest ones on top
kb9vqfI know and then it disappeared :(
kb9vqfBut then again I remember it being pretty badly incomplete...
MutantTurkeyi was starting a small list on the etherpad
kb9vqfI'll just say for the record that the first Etherpad installation was a test
kb9vqfI never expected it to be as good a tool as it was
kb9vqfso I wasn't very careful with it
MutantTurkeyit really is
MutantTurkeyokay i got my friend to email me the thing
MutantTurkeyso i am shooting it to you
kb9vqfok, thanks
MutantTurkeytitled thingy
MutantTurkeymy friend didn't understand it at all
kb9vqfgot it
kb9vqfI'll throw it up on GIT
MutantTurkeygreat thanks
MutantTurkeyas of right now i think it fails
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: That's OK; before you work on it more please check it out from GIT and keep updating it in GIT as you fix it :)
kb9vqfAlso, about the arch/master/src directory
kb9vqfwhy are there tarballs in there?
MutantTurkeyno idea what that is...
kb9vqfcan I just delete it?
MutantTurkeyokay, going to look through bugs.
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Uploaded
kb9vqfwant the link?
MutantTurkeygot it
MutantTurkeyeasy bugs... hrm
MutantTurkeycan't seem to find any hah
MutantTurkeyso is the etherpad good to go for usage?
kb9vqfit is stable
MutantTurkeypasswords and such are the same?
kb9vqfand will be subject to scheduled backup now
kb9vqfI sent new invitations to you and Xu_R
kb9vqfoh wait, you don't have Email :-P
MutantTurkeyyeah :P
kb9vqfI don't know how to force it
MutantTurkeyi might be able to do it on my phone
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: are easy bugs also enhancements?
MutantTurkeythere are some ones i see that are probably pretty simple
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tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 411 from kdelibs to ubuntu.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=411 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kdelibs4c2a-trinity "provides" missing to kdelibs4c2a
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 376 from system to ubuntu.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=376 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Unable to install 10.10 over 9.04
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kb9vqfsorry, webirc froze up on me again
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: i don't really see that many "easy easy" ones
MutantTurkeyno kvirc?
kb9vqfif an enhancement is easy then feel free to add it
kb9vqfmaybe the enhancements should be on a separate list
kb9vqfwith that list being ordered as well from easy to hard
MutantTurkeyalso i think i am going to mark some more important
kb9vqfmaybe another list ordered by importance
kb9vqfbugzilla can do that
MutantTurkeyi think some of those ubuntu are pretty critical
kb9vqfso fix the priority fields I guess :)
kb9vqfI think all of the bugs are set to medium priority ATM
kb9vqfkvirc is in Trinity
kb9vqfmust be an old bug
MutantTurkeyno i meant, why are you using the webchat?
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kb9vqfI'm on a different computer right now
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: alright bud. I am so tired i am unproductive. I'll talk to you tuesday when my internet is bacvk
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kb9vqfMutantTurkey: I'm on a different computer right now, so I don't have Konversation available
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* Xu_R whistles as he reads the logs... oh damn, it actually extends past the buffer this time >_>
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Space_Mankb9vqf: is your power back?
kb9vqfAs luck would have it the utility put us on the top of the list for restoration
kb9vqf(or pretty near it)
kb9vqfover 800,000 perople still are without power
kb9vqfXu_R|ZNC: Power's back way ahead of schedule
kb9vqfThere is still a chance that portions of the electric grid could fail as power is restored to other customers AFAIK
kb9vqfso if I drop back offline please don't be alarmed
kb9vqfFor anyone interested in a synopsis of the unusually strong weather at the Trinity web services location here's a graphic from a local TV station
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: having more connectivity issues?
MutantTurkeyalso anon.kde.org sucks.
kb9vqfInternet here is absolutely horrid
kb9vqfI got a helpful call from my ISP yesterday letting me know that they will be doing "major" maintinance in a few hours
kb9vqf"helpful" /sarcasm
kb9vqfSeems ol' Murphy is out to get me
kb9vqfMy hunch is that their network was severely damaged yesterday by the storms
kb9vqfgiven that their call was about 6 hours later....we had registered 80MPH sustained(!) winds during the derecho event
kb9vqfUtility company called it "blitzkreig" :-P
kb9vqf*blitzkreig rather
kb9vqfWe will need to get some kind of load balancing in place at some point in the future if this type of stuff becomes common place
kb9vqfIllinois is hurting for money as a whole and I suspect that some of the bad economy is eating into the utilities' preventative maintenance budgets
MutantTurkeythere have been a whole array of storms lately
MutantTurkeystill, doesn't give an excuse in my book for poor service.
kb9vqfyou should see the pictures...
kb9vqfhang on, I'll put one on Imagebin :)
MutantTurkeyI always give the "we are actually doing everything we can" not "we are doing everything we can/
MutantTurkeyat my job, as meanial as working as a 711 clerk... I seriously try to provided maximum service and take into account the entire store at once.
MutantTurkeyso when companies tell me "they are doing everything they can" while i am watching their maintenance crews are sitting outside my sev eating and carrying on for a good part of the hour on thier clock...
MutantTurkeyanyway. I digress. I am entirely fed up with my lousy service. my router has not shown up yet.
kb9vqfone sec while I get the link...
kb9vqfwell, at my speeds right now, maybe more like a minute :-P
MutantTurkeyi'm rocking off of 3g, so it'll take about  a week to download
kb9vqfafter the storms my camera and I went around documenting the damage
MutantTurkeythat impressive? huh.
MutantTurkeyno household damage i hope.
kb9vqftrees everywhere
kb9vqfyes, some fell on houses
kb9vqfand cars
kb9vqfsome of the wires just snapped from the wind alone
MutantTurkeyyeah. weirdly enough my neighbor has had 4/5 tree fall in like 3 years.
kb9vqfthe corn fields were *flattened*
kb9vqfif my connection were better I'd upload a few pics
MutantTurkeylast year it came across the street, onto the wires in front of my house, and as just leaning on the wire.
MutantTurkeythey roped it off with caution tape and left it hanging for a few days.
* kb9vqf wonders if he sent a 64x64 pixel thumbnail if *that* might make it through :-P
kb9vqfOh and it's also fun to have the lights flickering all day
kb9vqfprobably as portions of the grid are switched back in
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: http://imagebin.org/162840
MutantTurkeymakes sense.
kb9vqfdamage in a residential area
MutantTurkeyouch. that's not pretty.
kb9vqfNo kidding
kb9vqfI have more pics from elsewhere
MutantTurkeyone thing i always wondered (besides the topic)
kb9vqfTry a huge iron Farm&Fleet sign bent to the ground
MutantTurkeyis why the H-E-double hocky sticks do all word processors lack tabbing features? it's ridiculous.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I am glad i live on the east coast. as i say "it's boring and everything about NJ sucks. but hey, we don't get natural disasters"
kb9vqfexcept the "Perfect Storm" of '92
kb9vqfIIRC that hit the entire East coast
MutantTurkeyalso in like 98
MutantTurkeymostly our issues are minor flooding but that is about it.
* kb9vqf sometimes gets dates slightly off
kb9vqfThis has certainly been a year for extremes
MutantTurkeyI am awful enough with dates as is.
kb9vqfThe south gets record tornadoes and then broils
kb9vqfTexas is in record drought
MutantTurkeyglobal warming eh?
kb9vqfActually this is not all that abnormal
MutantTurkeyactually not at all. but more like "the built up 150 years of environmental distruction.
kb9vqfPeople forget that the weather is an average
MutantTurkeyglobal warming doesn't exist.
MutantTurkeybut the reasons for katrina, flooding and such
MutantTurkeyis all because we destroy our natural barriers.
kb9vqfare statistical likelihoods
kb9vqftake my area for instance
kb9vqfwe have not had a tornado for many decades
kb9vqfyet on average we should have one every decade or so
kb9vqf(a big one that is)
kb9vqfso people get complacent and when the statistics finally catch up with them things get ugly
kb9vqfJust my $0.02 ;-)
MutantTurkeyoddly, we have had a few in philly in the past few years.
MutantTurkeyactually one touched down in my suburb, while i was in middle school.
kb9vqfThere was one back in the 60s here that completely destroyed a middle school in my general area
kb9vqfThey are nothing to mess with
kb9vqfwe still have a strict building code as a result
MutantTurkeywhich is good.
MutantTurkeyall buildings in the midwest are brick right?
kb9vqfNo, surprisingly
MutantTurkeyall of ours are crappy and thrown together with wood and glue.
MutantTurkeyreally? I've been to more of the missouri area
MutantTurkeymostly brick their
kb9vqfbut near major tornado touchdowns they do require reinforced roofs and such
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: in comparison. there are none hear, and only brick ones are the historical ones.
kb9vqfhere they are McMansions with brick facades and cheap vinyl siding on the sides and rear
kb9vqfThey look REALLY unsafe if a tornado hit :-P
kb9vqfnothing like bricks flying through your siding and foam insulation...
kb9vqfanyway I think I am far enough OT for the time being :)
kb9vqfHopefully my power and ISP connection will stabilise in the next few days
kb9vqfNone of us has the resources to be another Google and distribute services over a dedicated fiber line
kb9vqfSame goes for your VPS
kb9vqfif a severe event hit the datacenter you'd be down too ;-)
MutantTurkeywhat about it?
MutantTurkeyexcept that they have 3 data centers! :D
MutantTurkey(i think at least)
kb9vqfAnd they are all in sync?
MutantTurkeynot sure, I will ask now.
kb9vqfThat kind of technology has not been developed yet
kb9vqfit would require insane bandwidth AFAIK
MutantTurkeythey have it.
MutantTurkeyit's in germany
MutantTurkeyI dont know how that is for weather.
kb9vqfI would be very surprised if your VPS has transparent failover between datacenters
kb9vqfGermany is very stable weather-wise
kb9vqfNothing of interest
kb9vqfthe mountains tend to destroy convective structures
kb9vqfWhile tornadoes are not unheard of there, it is nothing like the Midwest of the United States ;-)
kb9vqfThis connection is driving me nuts, so I'll sign off for now
kb9vqfThanks for the chat
MutantTurkeyI'll be around tomorrow working hours if you want to do more admin related bug work.
kb9vqfok, sounds good
kb9vqfI just got done tracing more memory corruption in kdesktop
kb9vqffixes are in SVN
kb9vqfand tbottu isn't dying, even though the connection is horrid :)
MutantTurkeyTomorrow i am going to track down that problem of building on arch, hopefully get that sorted out.
kb9vqfSo that is a major improvement
kb9vqfSounds good
kb9vqfsamelian was here not that long ago
MutantTurkeytbottu seems a bit more stable lately.
tbottuMutantTurkey: Error: "seems" is not a valid command.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: me and samelian seem to keep missing eachother.
kb9vqfI can't help too much
kb9vqf(mainly because it works on my systems)
MutantTurkeywe need samelian, he understands cmake :)
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kb9vqfDNS changes are propogating through the Internet as I type this
kb9vqfExpect all services to be restored in about 24 hours
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Xu_Ri spy a kb9vqf and a tbottu
Xu_Rservers connected now? :D
kb9vqfNo guaruntees that everything is fully online yet, but from what I can see everything is....
kb9vqfif you see something down/unavailable please poke me
Xu_RI see it online :D
kb9vqfSome info is on the Etherpad
kb9vqfthe last problem was that my ISP cut a fiber cable :-P
kb9vqfso we should probably have a meeting in a week or two
Xu_Rit's supposed to be tuesday...
kb9vqfhmmm, ok
kb9vqfI don't know how much progress others made, but obviously I wasn't able to do what I wanted to yet
Xu_Rok, I may postpone it.
kb9vqfspecifically I am still waiting on a full Qt3/Qt4 rebuild of the latest Trinity SVN
kb9vqfno power and no Internet made that all but impossible
Xu_Roh. that's almost guaranting it
Xu_R*guaranteeing (or however you spell it)
kb9vqfyep, that's right
kb9vqfI'll check back later...if anyone sees any services down please poke me
kb9vqfgotta get the build farm running that build again....
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: tim i got backups working of kde.org
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: http://mutantturkey.com/mirrorlog.html
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Borg^Queenhi hi
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Pikiyay, the sites back! :-)
kb9vqfAnd ahead of schedule too :)
kb9vqfSee the July meeting etherpad for more info on the outages
Pikibtw what version of autotools did 3.5.12 need?
kb9vqfautoconf 2.63 IIRC
kb9vqf<= 2.63
Pikii'm just about ready to start building, i just need to grab autotools and start building
Pikikb9vqf: is a certain version of automake required?
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Pikithe qt tarball i need is qt-x11-free-3.3.8b.tar.xx ?
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: hey, future comment about the channel
MutantTurkeywhen you have an outage, update the topic so people know :)
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MutantTurkeysamelian: hey I need some help building kdebase
MutantTurkeyI am having trouble making it find the dbus tqt path i think
MutantTurkeyI tried adding it to my CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH but it still doesn't see it.
samelianwhat kind of trouble?
MutantTurkeyit gives me the dbus-tqt cannot be  found on your system
MutantTurkeybut i exported it with export CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH=/opt/qt/include/tqt:/opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0:/opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0/dbus:/opt/trinity/include:/opt/trinity/include/libkrandr
sameliancheck error log
MutantTurkeyIt doesn't seem to include it
samelianwhere is located your connection.h?
samelianin /opt/trinity/include/dbus/connection.h ?
samelianwhere is dbus-tqt.pc?
MutantTurkeyin uh
samelianand cmake knows that .pc file is located in /opt/trinity/lib/pkgconfig?
MutantTurkey  export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=:/opt/trinity/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/qt/lib/pkgconfig:
samelianshow me output of pkg-config --cflags dbus-tqt
samelianbut pkg-config --cflags dbus-1-tqt ?
samelianhmm, seems that kdebase cmake is not adapted for dbus-1-tqt
sameliantry to replace pkg_search_module( DBUS dbus-1 )
samelianwith pkg_search_module( DBUS dbus-tqt )
MutantTurkeywhere is that?
MutantTurkeyoh in CMrighright
MutantTurkeystill errors out
MutantTurkeymaybe dbus-tqt-1
samelianI don't think so, dbus/connection.h is provided by dbus-tqt
samelianMutantTurkey: you have pkg_search_module( DBUS dbus-tqt ), of smth else?
MutantTurkeyi have dbus-tqt
samelianI see, but the variable is DBUS, or smth else?
MutantTurkeyi have that
samelianpaste entire ConfigureChecks
MutantTurkeyi apologize
MutantTurkeythey look the same xD
samelianthe error is the same?
MutantTurkeylet me retry
samelianshow me output of cmake as well
samelianand error log/
samelianare you sure you have /opt/trinity/include/dbus?
MutantTurkeylet me verify
MutantTurkeyno not there
MutantTurkeythere is
samelianshould be in /opt/trinity/include/dbus
MutantTurkeyokay i wonder why it is in dbus-1.0
MutantTurkeyit should be in dbus-1.0
MutantTurkeythat is where it installs default
MutantTurkeydo you want me to move it?
MutantTurkeyeither way, i included /opt/trinity/include/dbus-1.0/
sameliandbus should be installed where .pc file indicate
samelianotherwise can't be found
MutantTurkeysamelian: I'll look at the pc file
MutantTurkeyisn't the pc file generated?
samelianit is
kb9vqfGood idea MutantTurkey :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yeah.
MutantTurkeysamelian: hrm no luck then
MutantTurkeycan i regenerate it or something/
samelian.pc file is based on INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: do  you know why it would be in "dbus-1.0" instead of dbus?
MutantTurkeysamelian: okay
MutantTurkeyfor tqt
kb9vqfI don't know; I haven't looked at that code in quite a while :-/
samelianhow you installed dbus-tqt?
MutantTurkeysamelian: what do you mean?
samelianis installed by make install or somehow manually?
MutantTurkeywith my pkgbuild
MutantTurkeyits packaged
MutantTurkeymy INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR is /opt/trinity
samelianmaybe your package did not respect CMAKE_PREFIX
samelianah, I see a problem
samelianinstall( FILES
samelian    dbus-qt.h message.h connection.h server.h
samelian  DESTINATION ${INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR}/dbus-1.0/dbus )
sameliani'm not sure why is that
sameliankb9vqf: you did not changed DESTINATION?
samelianI don't remember if I changed it
kb9vqfI don't remember either
kb9vqfall I know is it works here (TM)
samelianok, I will check it today later
samelianright now my mind is too fuzzy, there is 7:00 AM at this moment :)
kb9vqfI'm currently in the middle of a rebuild that was interrupted due to Monday's derecho
samelianI can't sleep
MutantTurkeyI am up :D
MutantTurkeyso I am at this point, just waiting for that file change?
MutantTurkeyi'll just do it myself
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: wait should it be ${INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR}/dbus/?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: can anyone clone the git?
MutantTurkeyanyway actually i am going to sleep. I'll sort this out later.
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MutantTurkeysamelian: so any idea about this problem i am having?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: how do i clone our git? :\
MutantTurkeywithout a user
MutantTurkeyjust no user prefixing the url/
Xu_RMutantTurkey: remove your username from it
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: okay yeah i am just going t odo that
MutantTurkeygotta convert all the package building systems to git D:
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: hey important
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: on the archlinux developers mailing list
MutantTurkeythey are discussing who isgoing to maintain qt3 and kdelibs3
MutantTurkeyi privately emailed the guy earier about qt3
MutantTurkeybut kdelibs3 is a different story
MutantTurkeyare we compat with the old kde3libs? i am not suree how this works
MutantTurkeybut, this could be our foot in the door to getting supported officially by a distro
MutantTurkeyXu_R|ZNC: ^ also see this and tell me what you tink
kb9vqfWe are NOT compatible with the old kdelibs in terms of the ABI
kb9vqfthe API will allow the older KDE3 apps to be compiled against the Trinity kdelibs in theory, but I've never tried it
kb9vqfthe fact that we use TQt instead of Qt3 may throw a monkey wrench into that idea
arkb9vqf: TQt is the wrapper around qt4?
MutantTurkeybut qt3 is api compat right?
MutantTurkeyar: yes and qt3
MutantTurkeyagainst all qt versions
kb9vqfyes, qt3 is compatible
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: because we could be qt3 upstream
kb9vqfthat is OK with me
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so in theory we could compile to the, but not neccesarily?
kb9vqfThe goal is to pull all of the disparate Qt3 patches to create a central, up-to-date Qt3 repository that can then be extended as neccessary
kb9vqf"compile to the"?
MutantTurkeyif they recompile (thats probably okay) will it work?
MutantTurkeyrecompile gaainst new kde3libs
kb9vqfI can't guarantee it
kb9vqfthe reason is that some member names changed in TQt3
kb9vqfIn all likelihood the original Qt3 member names will "bleed through" and the code will compile, but I am not comfortable stating that it *will* work at this point
MutantTurkeyi am recommending they don't use our kdelibs3
MutantTurkeydid you see that link
kb9vqflooking at it now
kb9vqfcan they try it?
MutantTurkeyi emailed it
MutantTurkeyto you
MutantTurkeymy response
MutantTurkeylook at it and see if it's okay
kb9vqfI'm just not sure what to do here :)
kb9vqfwe're not stable yet
kb9vqf(will be fall before 3.5.13 is released)
kb9vqfJust a couple of nits
kb9vqf1.) TQt is not Tqt ;-)
kb9vqf2.) kde3 is not Trinity
MutantTurkeyi know.
MutantTurkeythats what i mean
kb9vqf3.) I would put in a recommendation that they look into switching to the Trinity-provided kdelibs/kdebase/kde* modules
kb9vqfjust for the simple fact that they are having build problems now with the old stock KDE3 sources
kb9vqfJust a thought
MutantTurkeyso i should recommend that when we release stable, they should just switch?
kb9vqfit won't be as easy as "just switch", primarily due to CMake being used to build arts/kdelibs/kdebase, but yes
kb9vqfit shouldn't be too bad
kb9vqfI changed the Ubuntu build scripts in about a day
kb9vqf(to handle CMake and the tqtinterface deps that is)
MutantTurkeybut if i have package builds they can just steam them
MutantTurkeybecause i would pu the mup for them to steal :0
kb9vqfah, ok :)
kb9vqfyes, in that case switching would be easy
MutantTurkeyread that
MutantTurkeysent another
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: i think that should be the one i send off, unless there is any other problems?
kb9vqfLooks good
kb9vqfI only have one suggestion
kb9vqfThe Qt3 repository is actually ready to use, combining all the patches I am aware of
MutantTurkeyokay so they should use it?
MutantTurkeywhat is the link?
kb9vqfI would say yes
kb9vqfthat's the Webgit
kb9vqfan actual checkout command would be:
kb9vqfgit clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde/main/dependencies/qt3
kb9vqfor there's a handy .tar.gz link on the bottom of the webgit page ;-)
kb9vqfAs more patches are applied they will be listed in the changes-3.3.8d file
kb9vqfIf there are any compilation issues they should just poke me here or send an Email to the trinity-devel list
kb9vqfIIRC a compilation test was already run successfully on an non-Ubuntu system by someone on the mailing list
kb9vqfso I'm not expecting any problems
MutantTurkeyhttp://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2011-July/020969.html sent
MutantTurkeygottta go drop off paper work at HR
kb9vqfok, thanks
MutantTurkeyi'll stop by later.
kb9vqfhopefully we start getting some downstream distro support now... :)
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Borg^Queenhello humans, AIs and others
MutantTurkeyrunning around hot downtown filling out paperwork
MutantTurkeyvery gross
Borg^Queenugh really, how hot is it?
Borg^Queenits 35c here
MutantTurkeyuh i would say about 35c
MutantTurkeywhich by itself is bearable
MutantTurkeybut the humidity
MutantTurkeyis terrible.
Borg^Queenthe tell is, if you believe the weather monkeys, its going to get up about 38c here today
Borg^QueenI doubt it, since its already cooling off
Borg^QueenI hate humidity, makes for a bad hair day, and mine is very long
Borg^QueenI end up looking like a rabid brillo pad
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Borg^Queenhi kb9vqf
kb9vqfHello :)
Borg^QueenGot some feed back from my testers yesterday
Borg^Queen"Great job!
Borg^QueenThat was pretty much it, they went back to using it
kb9vqfVERY glad to hear that!
Borg^QueenT he only complaints where about in ubuntu in general
Borg^QueenIts a well earned feed back
kb9vqfYes, Ubuntu is fast becoming a steaming pile of something nasty :-P
Borg^Queenooh lol
kb9vqfToo unstable, too much API breakage for no reason
kb9vqfCase in point: I do video editing in my spare time
kb9vqfand use IEEE1394
kb9vqfGuess what Natty did?
Borg^QueenIts called "Replicate Fade" a genetics term, meaning errors resulting from making copies of copies
kb9vqfThey moved the /dev/raw1394 device to /dev/fw0....for no reason whatsoever!
Borg^QueenUmm I use fW too
kb9vqfLet's just say it breaks Kino and other apps
kb9vqfand yes :-P
kb9vqfI am serious
Borg^QueenWell I do my video editing, which is a lot, on Ark linux, which sadly doesn't have TDE yet. But the founding devel is very interested. Come to #arklinux to meet him if you have the time and inclination.
kb9vqfA symbolic link will fix the issue (ln -s /dev/fw0 /dev/raw1394), but you have to do that on every boot
kb9vqfDebian is starting to look more and more attractive
kb9vqfI have Debian boxes that give me no trouble whatsoever
Borg^QueenI was on debian but I wanted a pure kde distro, arklinux was and still is the best distro I've used. I have it so tweaked I can do 80% of my work from konq
Borg^QueenI have video, audio, graphics,  file management and more servicemenus
Borg^QueenI've been experimenting with dvd, bluray ripping and converting to mkv
Borg^Queenthe cli tools are SO easy
kb9vqfYou're lucky you aren't in the USA
* kb9vqf wishes he could do that
Borg^QueenI am
kb9vqfBTW can you check the rsync mirror of Trinity for me?
kb9vqfsee if you can get a directory list from rsync.trinitydesktop.org
kb9vqfe.g. with rsync rsync://rsync.trinitydesktop.org
* kb9vqf is fixing some routing issues
Borg^Queenok hang on, don't use rsync very often
Borg^Queenrsync: getaddrinfo: rsync.trinitydesktop.org 873: Name or service not known
Borg^Queenrsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(122) [receiver=3.0.2]
Borg^Queenkb9vqf: you can add all kinds of multimedia services because you are not a commercial entity
* kb9vqf was afraid of that
kb9vqfhang on
* kb9vqf mutters something about keeping illegal topics off this channel
kb9vqfOK, please try the rsync again...
Borg^Queenone moment
Borg^Queensame error
Borg^Queenperhaps I'm getting the command wrong
kb9vqfI was playing with the routing and messed it up
Borg^Queengive me an exact command
Borg^QueenI did that last night took down my entire network until 10 am this morning
kb9vqfBorg^Queen: OK, try one more time
kb9vqfrsync rsync://rsync.trinitydesktop.org
Borg^Queensame error
kb9vqfThat should have worked
kb9vqfwhat is the error?
Borg^Queenthe way I do it is I open a terminal into the dir where I have the iso, is that wrong?
Borg^Queenrsync: getaddrinfo: rsync.trinitydesktop.org 873: Name or service not known
Borg^Queenrsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(122) [receiver=3.0.2]
kb9vqfSounds like a DNS malfunction
kb9vqfWhat does ping rsync.trinitydesktop.org show?
Borg^Queenone moment
Borg^Queenping: unknown host rsync.trinitydesktop.org
Borg^Queenlet me test me ping functions
Borg^Queenits working
kb9vqfI will have to think for a few minutes
kb9vqfBorg^Queen: OK, try again please...
Borg^Queensame both rsync and ping
kb9vqfrsync still failing?
Borg^Queenis trinity site down?
Borg^Queenyes on rsync and ping as well
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Borg^QueenThere goes the neihbourhood
kb9vqfAh, there we go I think
Borg^QueenThere goes the neighborhood even
kb9vqfI confused it with two gateways :-P
Borg^Queennot working
Borg^Queenmaybe I'm doing something wrong?
kb9vqfworked on a remote system I have access to
kb9vqfpost the command?
Borg^Queenping rsync.trinitydesktop.org &  ping rsync.trinitydesktop.org are the commands I'm using
kb9vqfOh, ping may not work
kb9vqfI was just making sure it resolved the DNS entry
kb9vqfin fact IIRC ping is blocked
kb9vqfwhat about rsync?
Xu_Rshush Borg^Queen. :P
Borg^Queensame error as before
kb9vqfXu_R: Can you try?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: http://forum.mandriva.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=128274&p=848036#p848036 have you seen this?
kb9vqfrsync rsync://rsync.trinitydesktop.org
Xu_Rdoesn't work here
kb9vqfoh, duh
kb9vqfI gave the wrong URL
* kb9vqf needs more coffee
Borg^Queenok brb
kb9vqfrsync rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
MutantTurkeywhat's up with rsync?
kb9vqfThe mirroring system broke after the IP change
Borg^Queenok working
Xu_Rthere we go
MutantTurkeyoh D:
Xu_Rthat works xD
kb9vqfSo the mirrors should sync again...that's good
kb9vqfXu_R: Can you try another test for me?
kb9vqfTry to actually *pull* some files from that rsync server
kb9vqfI need to make sure the bandwidth settings are OK
kb9vqfLet me know when you have initiated the download so I can peer at the charts
kb9vqfit's active?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: sent that email off, still no word back yet no idea why.
kb9vqfgive them time :)
kb9vqfXu_R: Not seeing your download traffic yet
Xu_Ryea, hold on
Xu_Rrouter's been screwing me up all weekend
kb9vqfoh, ok
kb9vqfI just need a short burst for a minute or so
Borg^Queenok back
Xu_Rgot that short burst?
kb9vqfI was waiting for a poke
kb9vqftry again?
Xu_Rget anything?
Xu_Rbecause my server is seeing yours and pulling now
kb9vqfyes, I see your traffic
kb9vqfIt's in the wrong spot on my end
kb9vqfhang on while I reconfigure something
Xu_Rstopping and waiting
kb9vqfXu_R: Try again please
kb9vqfOK, much better
kb9vqfeverything looks OK now
kb9vqfBTW please don't use that address unless you have a mirror to add to the system
Xu_Rkb9vqf: ok. i'm not using it anyway.
kb9vqfWhen the primary mirrors start pulling that link will swamp very quickly :)
Xu_RxD I figured
Xu_Rkb9vqf: so did you see this? http://forum.mandriva.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=128274&p=848036#p848036
Borg^QueenI leave the mirrors to the pros
kb9vqfXu_R: yes I did
Borg^QueenXu_R: I read it, what about it?
kb9vqfso it looks like there are spec files "out there in the Ether"?
kb9vqfwant to pull them and try building Trinity with them? (hint hint)
Xu_Rkb9vqf: yea... I want to see what he did
Xu_Rexcept I need to see if that fix can be used to build the latest SVN too.
kb9vqfIf they're good clone them to our GIT repo
Xu_RBorg^Queen: that is supposed to allow the old autotools system to build Trinity
Xu_Rwith newer autoconf versions
Borg^QueenI thought we were going to all cmake
Borg^QueenI hate autotools
Xu_RBorg^Queen: we're not stalled on it anymore, so if you can still use it, it's an advantage to have a fallback
Borg^Queentrue, good point
Xu_RI haven't heard from anyone on the July Meeting except kb9vqf... *glare*
kb9vqfXu_R: I patched Automake as best as I could some time ago
kb9vqfi.e. most things build
kb9vqfarts is NOT one of them
kb9vqfbut since we have CMake for Arts I don't really care
Borg^Queendoes arts do anything anymore?
kb9vqfit's still needed
kb9vqfit does seem quite stable IMHO
kb9vqfI have had no problems with it since 3.5.11
Borg^QueenI never had any problems with it, but everyone says its been replaced
kb9vqfwith what?
kb9vqfthat *does* give me problems on a near-daily asis
kb9vqfAFAIK there is no viable replacement for arts
Borg^QueenI never got it to work, and phonon keeps crashing
kb9vqfI think the "arts is dead" stuff is wishful thinking
Borg^QueenA lot of kde4 is wishful thinking, honestly
kb9vqfas in it was replaced under KDE4 with an unstable chunk of new software
Borg^Queencase in point
Borg^Queenwhat lol its true
Xu_RI know
MutantTurkeyyes! finally got all my paperwork done with the HR department :)
Xu_RMutantTurkey: :D
MutantTurkey:D :D
MutantTurkeybut now i actually have to work D:
Xu_Rhey, kb9vqf: could you give Borg^Queen git access? I want her to help me with packaging for RPM-based distros
kb9vqfsure :)
Borg^QueenI stink at that
kb9vqfCan I have a real name and an Email address?
Xu_RBorg^Queen: even if it's testing...? lol
Borg^QueenKate Draven / borgqueen4@gmail.com
MutantTurkeySSN and phone number and bank #'s to
Borg^QueenOh I can test, I can break and complain about anything
Xu_Ras you are notorious for doing that ;P
Borg^QueenMutantTurkey: >:
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: is it possible that we could have some sort of developers area for the site? as a portal
kb9vqfRemember we are a desktop project, meaning that we should at least know who is committing what for security reasons
Xu_Rkb9vqf: and for good reasons too.
MutantTurkeyi mean just like a page that links to all the other ones
Borg^Queenkb9vqf: I'
MutantTurkeybecause we have cgit, etherpad, etc
Borg^QueenI'm glad you said that
Xu_Rspeaking of Etherpad, is the July meeting tomorrow?
kb9vqftime out, time out :)
kb9vqftoo much text
Xu_Rbrb, my contacts are getting blurry... D:
kb9vqfyes, a portal would be nice
MutantTurkeyand a maybe "phonebook" so to speak
kb9vqfI don't have time to iron out what should be on it
kb9vqfwant to thrown up an Etherpad with what you guys want to seee?
MutantTurkeymore like a contact page for us devels so other people have emails and such
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: i can do it
kb9vqfthen just Email it to me or something
kb9vqfre: the meeting
kb9vqftomorrow may not be the best time
kb9vqfhow about a week from tomorrow?
Xu_Ryes, gross D:
Xu_Rkb9vqf: so postpone it a week? ok
kb9vqfyes, please
kb9vqfOK, Email with account info sent
kb9vqfBorg^Queen: ^^^
Borg^Queenah ok thank you
kb9vqfLet me know when you have changed your password and I will grant commit access
kb9vqfDo you want access to just the packaging repo or the source code as well?
Borg^Queenvery good, a little busy at the moment, can it wait a bit?
kb9vqfjust poke me or Email me when done
Borg^Queenwhatever Xu_R needs, I'm going to test whatever he packages
Borg^Queenand there's the smirk
Borg^QueenHe sees his opportunity to torture me
Xu_Rno, borgy, I will not install malware -_-
Borg^QueenI was taking a sip of water when the popped up
Borg^QueenI almost did a spit take into the fan
Xu_R*when the popped up?
Borg^Queenit rather
Borg^Queen[15:40] <Xu_R> no, borgy, I will not install malware -_-
Xu_Roh xD
Borg^Queensquare kb and I uses ergos
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MutantTurkeythanks ran into a bit of comptuer trouble
Xu_Rah, i'm late.
Xu_R-_- no.
Borg^QueenMutantTurkey: tis ok, you can relax
MutantTurkeyI really need to get this dumb build problem fixedu p
MutantTurkeyI am itching to work on real problems :P
Borg^Queenwhat's wrong?
MutantTurkeyi have to update some scripts now that we are using git, annd fix an error with my kdebase script.
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kb9vqfAnyone here know this guy?
kb9vqfPawel <0x4r0x@gmail.com> requested an account for trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org
Xu_Rkb9vqf: no...
kb9vqfIf not I'll probably ignore his request
kb9vqfcould be a spam bot
Xu_Rignore for now - and if anyone mentions on the list, then we'll know
kb9vqfjust thought I'd check here
Xu_Rnice to know that the request feature works :D
kb9vqfYes...since the (ill-timed) upgrades most things appear to be working at 100%
Xu_Ra very good thing indeed
kb9vqfOn July 11th or so I did some upgrades  and maintinance of the Trinity web services
Borg^QueenXu_R: f15 ... OMG lol
Xu_RBorg^Queen: you can now request for an account on etherpad using a built-in form instead of us having to manually do it.
kb9vqfWhile this fixed a lot of problems I did manage to knock the Etherpad offline
Borg^Queenit seems gnome is the default ui, should I try kde4
kb9vqfand then the derecho came through a few days later
kb9vqfso the timing ended up being very bad in hindsight
Borg^Queenoh blimey, I think its dead
* Xu_R wonders if Borg^Queen paid attention...?
Borg^Queenmy fedora 15 install
* Xu_R gets a no as an answer.
Borg^Queenabout etherpad, yes sorry,
kb9vqfwe have several topics going on here apparently
* kb9vqf gets off to let the channel topic take precedence :)
Borg^QueenI'm new to all this so I'll have to learn on the fly regarding things like etherpad
Xu_Rbrb, dinner.
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Borg^Queenok time for me to go, gn or day to all
MadRushanybody useing trinity on debian squeeze? I'm getting a dependency problem trying to install
Borg^Queenwhat dep?
eldowanMadRush: I'm using trinity on squeeze
Borg^Queenwell then, I'm off
Borg^Queenthank you eldowan
eldowanBorg^Queen: not sure what help i can be, i'm not at that machine.
eldowanbut yw, all the same
Borg^QueenWell you'd know more than me, I haven't used Debian since Sarge
Borg^Queenmust go, sorry to run off MadRush, I have to make my own mad rush
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eldowanMadRush: I'll be leaving here shortly, but any info you can provide?
eldowanI had to update some packages on my squeeze box (heh) before the install'd go through. though I dont' remember what
MadRushlol borg
Xu_Rdon't worry, Borg^Queen is always like that.
Xu_Rping kb9vqf
MadRushits just funny I use this nick but I forget that its actually words that can be used hah
MadRushwhats the apt command to go ahead and do a safe update?
Xu_Rapt-get upgrade
MadRushits been a while since I did that ... been using the update manager for quite a while now.
MadRushim tempted to make a squeeze vm real quick and see if it works on there
eldowanI think there's a switch that you cna use that won't do an update, but show you what would be installed.
eldowanaptitude -s will simulate, but not perform actions.
MadRushgood to know.  ive got to run but I'll be back later if I haven't made any headway
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Xu_Rbrb, upgrading virtualbox (which reset my damn connection)
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: werid still no answer :[
MutantTurkeyalso, I can't clone the git...
MutantTurkeydid you run "update-server-info" on the server?
MutantTurkeyfatal: http://cmorrison@trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
* Xu_R hopes that kb9vqf is not using java's implementation of git that SCM-Manager is supposed to use...
Xu_RMutantTurkey: then again, I didn't have that problem...
Xu_Roh, I know
Xu_RMutantTurkey: check your url
MutantTurkeywhats wron with that?
Xu_Rit's scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging
Xu_Ryou're missing the subdomain
MutantTurkeyokay :)
MutantTurkeythis info should really be somewhere..
Xu_Rit is...
Xu_Rif you login
MutantTurkeywhat is git.trinitdesktop.org?
Xu_Rit also tells you your git clone command
Xu_RMutantTurkey: the cgit interface AFAIK
MutantTurkeyoh here is a git tip if you dont want a giant wait to  clone huge repos
MutantTurkeygit clone URL --depth=1
MutantTurkeyonly checks out most recent revision
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Xu_RMutantTurkey: My internet is fast (but comcast loves throttling me), and I've really had not many problems with many big repos. but thanks for the tip!
MutantTurkeybut like when you clone the kernel...
MutantTurkeyif you ever do
MutantTurkeyit's annoyingly ridiculous :P
Xu_Roh, now I want to. XD
MutantTurkeyXu_R: yo so at this point all patches have been incorporated into qt3?
Xu_Rpretty much. there's nothing really much more.
MutantTurkeyhave archlinux patches been looked at?
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: hey I have all these qt3 patches in tde-packaging/arch/trinity-qt3/ and i don't know if they are still relevant
MutantTurkey(i am undergoing the conversion to git now)
kb9vqfcan you see if they are in the qt3 master branch?
MutantTurkeyhow would i do that?
MutantTurkeyis there a way to search?
kb9vqfyou would have to load each patch and see if the changes are already in the source files
kb9vqfalternatively, check out the source and try to patch it
kb9vqfpatch will complain if the patches are already in place
Xu_RMutantTurkey: just go with option 2, and use quilt. it'll make your life so much easier.
MutantTurkeyok :)
MutantTurkeyI am terrible at remembering passwords D:
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: sorry to be a pain in the arse, could you reset me git password?
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: reset
MutantTurkeydoes scm allow us to do oher things? or is it just a git manager?
kb9vqfit's a scm manager
kb9vqfso I could also provide subversion or mercurial repositories
kb9vqfsource control manager
MutantTurkeyso many acronyms
MutantTurkeyI thought it was vcs
kb9vqfI know :)
kb9vqfprobably vcs is more generic
Xu_Rscm, vcs
Xu_Rboth work in the end :P
MutantTurkeyalso what are we on
MutantTurkeyoh my gosh this pkgbuild is way to complicated...
kb9vqf3.3.8d technically
kb9vqf3.3.8d being HEAD
kb9vqf3.3.8c was already released
kb9vqf3.3.8d may end up being the fully patched version of 3.3.8c
kb9vqflatest bleeding-edge version in the VCS
MutantTurkeywait so I should pull from the main/ though right?
MutantTurkeyor is that HEAD?
MutantTurkeywhats in experimental/ ?
kb9vqflet me put it this way: for an old stable project like Qt3 you want to pull the latest (HEAD) development sources from GIT
kb9vqfexperimental contains tqt4
MutantTurkeyokay :)
kb9vqfand believe me it is HIGHLY experimental :)
kb9vqfwill probably eat your cat and make trees fall on your car
Xu_RD: kitty hater!
MutantTurkeyI'll stay away.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: also a maybe ridiculous thought
MutantTurkeywe want to use webkit, do we want to write a tqt interface for webkit?
MutantTurkeythere already is a qt4 port for it, I don't know how much effort would be required
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: hrm another weird thing, I can do this: git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde
MutantTurkeybut not git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde/main/dependencies/qt3/
kb9vqfwhat's the error?
MutantTurkeyfatal: remote error: Git repository not found
Xu_RMutantTurkey: you could never do that with git last I checked.
* kb9vqf is a GIT newbie
MutantTurkeyXu_R: yes you can I think...
MutantTurkeyI am almost sure
Xu_Rotherwise I would have done it with gitorious...
MutantTurkeymaybe not
kb9vqfFrom what I understand it's not possible
* Xu_R tests his gitorious for that
MutantTurkeyyou can do it
kb9vqfI'm basing that on the fact that, unlike SVN, there is no .git directory in each subdirectory of a repository
MutantTurkeysparse checkouts
Xu_RMutantTurkey: no, it didn't work here...
Xu_Roh, sparse checkouts, eww...
Xu_Rthere's this : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/600079/is-there-any-way-to-clone-a-git-repositorys-sub-directory-only
MutantTurkeywhat do you mean eww?
MutantTurkeyit's identical to svn's way
MutantTurkeyyoujust have to set it up i think
Xu_Rexactly why I said eww.
Xu_Ryou can't do that on an initial clone
MutantTurkeyi know
MutantTurkeyso what do we do? just force them to checkout everything?
kb9vqfwell, not a problem with my server then
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: no :)
kb9vqfGIT does have limitations
Xu_RMutantTurkey: yea. pretty much. unless you want me to do branches?
Xu_Rone branch per distro?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so does svn :P
MutantTurkeyanyway i think git has good advantages over svn
Xu_R(that actually sounds kinda good, doing branches)
MutantTurkeythough this is one that seems pretty hefty annoying
kb9vqfI assume there would still be a way to check out everything?
kb9vqfI don't want to lose that
Xu_Rkb9vqf: git clone takes out everything.
kb9vqfThe more connections you have being established in an automated script, the higher the liklihood of failure
kb9vqfwell, as long as we retain the ability to have a large, editable "master" checkout of everything I don't care what is done about branches/sparse checkouts/etc.
* Xu_R actually wants to work on a seperate branch for now with these mandriva SRPMS
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: hmmm got an email back from a developer
kb9vqfnot good?
MutantTurkeyit was like off topic...
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: also, are you being trottled at liek 90kbs?
kb9vqfit sounds like they are not interested
kb9vqfI shouldn't be
kb9vqfwhich service is affected?
MutantTurkeyjust git cloning is really slow
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: thats only one developer, out of like 30...
MutantTurkeymostly what i was proposing was qt3
MutantTurkeykdelibs3 i even said wasn't important until we went stable
kb9vqf90kbits or 90kbytes?
kb9vqfwell that actually might be the max uplink
MutantTurkeyoh, in that case sorry for stealing all your bandwidth :P
kb9vqfIt's OK
kb9vqfyou can't
kb9vqf90k isn't that bad in reality
kb9vqfif we find a bottlenect we'll start redirecting initial checkouts to another server
kb9vqfI just don't know enough about GIT to do that yet :-P
MutantTurkeyi keep forgetting if i have mentioned this
MutantTurkeyi started to mirror kde.org and am going to start mirroring our git
kb9vqfyes you did
kb9vqfwhen you have the git mirror please let me know
MutantTurkeyokay I will
MutantTurkeynow how do I not just mirror it, but allow other people to check out from me
kb9vqfI have no idea :-P
MutantTurkeyI mean right now I am just cloning it into a directory on a cron job
kb9vqfThat might work
kb9vqfAs long as the entries for commit still point to *.trinitydesktop.org it should be OK
MutantTurkeyyeah I don't know D:
kb9vqfLike I said my GIT knowledge is somewhat sparse still, so I'm playing it safe
kb9vqfand having people check out straight from the main repo
MutantTurkeyis good
MutantTurkeyI am just doing it mostly for backups now
Xu_Rgetting tired now - night all
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Did your git checkout complete yet?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: yes but the thing is I need to do it frequently
MutantTurkeywhich is annoying
MutantTurkeyfor some reason I cannot do --depth 1
* kb9vqf was just curious
MutantTurkeyto speed it up considerably.
MutantTurkeydo you know why that is?
kb9vqfno, sorry
MutantTurkeynow i am erroring upon building qt34
MutantTurkey/home/calvin/trinity-tree/tde-packaging/arch/master/trinity-qt3/src/tde/main/dependencies/qt3/src/tools/qdir.cpp:45:28: fatal error: private/qdir_p.h: No such file or directory
kb9vqfthat is supposed to be a symlink
kb9vqfhang on while I look at it
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: fixed
MutantTurkeyre pull?
MutantTurkeyok building works now ;)
MutantTurkeycould be easier than i thought
MutantTurkeygotta figure out how to keep it in opt
MutantTurkeyjust got to figure out how to package it right...
MutantTurkeythere are more errors
MutantTurkeyactually... no idea whats up
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I dunno. Ill work on it tomorrow
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: did you see the patches from Nix?
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: seems that at least one of those patches wasn't in the main repo
Xu_Roh, patchwork is down...
MutantTurkeyit doesn't matter
MutantTurkeyI  just attached it
MutantTurkeyso we can still use it
Xu_RI know. I was just saying in general. Did you also see the patches from Nix?
MutantTurkeyXu_R: I told myself i would get up at like 8... didnt wake up till now haha
MutantTurkeyyes briefly while laying in bed
Xu_RMutantTurkey: lol
MutantTurkeythey were tqt patches
MutantTurkeyhopefully fixing my problem
Xu_Rnice to see some patches floating into the mailing list
MutantTurkeyi really want to be more of a hel
MutantTurkeybut until i get this system running triniy i am out of luck
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: okay, errors building qt3 now. ptrdiff_t does not name a type
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* kb9vqf forgot about patchwork
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 486 filed by jsullivan@opensourcedevel.com.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=486 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, KOrgac reading Zimbra calendars via caldav crash constantly for almost all users
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kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Patchwork is back online: http://patchwork.trinitydesktop.org/project/trinity/list/
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kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Patchwork did not catch your patch--did you attach it in plain text as requested earlier?
kb9vqfXu_R: Patchwork registration should be functionali
kb9vqf*functional now
Xu_Rkb9vqf: darn it, my first two attempts are still there - but my account is inactive...
kb9vqfXu_R: I thought I deleted them
kb9vqflet me take another look
kb9vqfXu_R: OK, try again
Xu_Rok, registered, and waiting for the registration email....
Xu_Rhm, I may sound impatient, but the email isn't coming (same thing like before)
kb9vqfit should :-/
kb9vqfBTW before there was no SMTP account so the Email program just failed
kb9vqfAs long as you did not receive an HTTP/500 error then the Email *should* have been sent
Xu_RI didn't... :\
kb9vqfOf course there could also be a bug in Django/Patchwork
kb9vqfwho knows
Xu_Rkb9vqf: i'll check it again in a bit, I have to bbl.
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MutantTurkeyhey guys
eldowanyo MutantTurkey
eldowanhow's life?
MutantTurkeyworking and stuff
MutantTurkeytwo jobs, lots of linux stuff, have a great girlfriend, my band is coming together.
MutantTurkeythings are looking pretty solid
ardo you have any time left for sleep?
MutantTurkeynot at all
MutantTurkeyI haven't been sleeping enough
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eldowanMutantTurkey: wow, that's a full plate and then some.
eldowanwhat kind of band? what's your rold?
MutantTurkeyeldowan: uh sort of just like rock
MutantTurkeywell thats not totally accurate
MutantTurkeybut it's pretty close
MutantTurkeyI am singer and guitar player and going to be the bass player when we find a replacement guitarist
eldowanoh nice. you guys just starting out, or you been in the scene for a while?
MutantTurkeythis band is just starting up
MutantTurkeyI was in a jam band earlier last year, and we had alot of cool material, but for some reason no one was motivated to gig at all. hence we just became a sort of jamband
MutantTurkeybut i have the keys player from the old band, a new guitarist, and potentially a new drummer
MutantTurkeyon top of that I am working on getting recordings done for other local bands
MutantTurkeyeldowan: check this single out, I did for a band called Clairvoyance, which has alot of my pals in it
MutantTurkeylisten to "button up"
eldowanwill do.
eldowanwhat are you p laying here?
MutantTurkeyI producced it
MutantTurkeymixed, setup the studio space
MutantTurkeybasically all the work to let the band just focus on the music
eldowanthey aren't bad.
MutantTurkeynot for a bunch of kids...
MutantTurkeyi think the quality is pretty good
MutantTurkeywould like to vocals to be a bit warmer oh well.
eldowaneh, you can always remaster if you have the orig tracks.
MutantTurkeyI do.
MutantTurkeybut the vocals are just a tad crappy imho
MutantTurkeyI cleaned it up about a million times better
eldowanah, they don't seem to be the most steady, that's for sure. kinda seems he's a little sharp sounding (duno about flat / sharp, but i mean to my ears)
MutantTurkeyyes I hear ya
MutantTurkeythey also have like 3 people sining at once
MutantTurkeytowards the end
MutantTurkeycomplicates fixing it
eldowanso true
MutantTurkeybecause it was done together
eldowanoh, on the one track?
MutantTurkeybut that was the only one I did they put up
MutantTurkeythe cracked glass demo is way worse quality, but whatever.
eldowanbuddy of mine turned his house into a studio, did it right. soundproofed everything, master control room, silent rooms, nice vocal booth.
eldowanthe entire 2nd floor is recording space, and his master bedroom is his mixing control room.
MutantTurkeythats the plan
MutantTurkey$30,000, a house and a decent ear = instant studio
MutantTurkeymy buddy actually works for a new label startup and thats what the guy did.
eldowanoh nice.
eldowanyeah, he's on his way to finishing it and trying to attract artists to record.
eldowanhe's also a /stellar/ musician, with contacts all over the city. so hopefully he does well.
MutantTurkeysounds like my buy
MutantTurkeyAce Enders?
MutantTurkey1 in a million chance...
MutantTurkeyugh builing on a G5 Mac takes forever...
eldowannah, my guys is Cael.
MutantTurkeyeither way something i'd like to do
eldowanwhat region are you in anyway? we'er in the general Houston area.
eldowanah, well that'd explain it.
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MutantTurkeyyeah :)
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eldowanyeah, can't wait for the day to be over.
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: WOAH, finally found the patchwork confi'rmation email.
Xu_Rit ended up in my spam
Xu_Rbecause the email has "example.com" in it...
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* kb9vqf goes to check the configuration again
Borg^Queendoes anyone have time to help me figure out an error build mkvtools?
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eldowanBorg^Queen: I dont' know how much /help/ i'll be... i usually install from apt
Borg^QueenI think I'm onto something hang ok
kb9vqfXu_R: Should be fixed (I hope)
Borg^Queenok it keeps saying checking for EBML... no
Borg^Queenthe libebml libs are installed to /usr/local/lib and /usr/local/include
Borg^Queenthis is the config line
Borg^Queen./configure --with-matroska-include=/usr/local/include/matroska \
Borg^Queen  --with-matroska-lib=/usr/local/lib \
Borg^Queen  --with-ebml-include=/usr/local/include \
Borg^Queen  --with-ebml-lib=/usr/local/lib
Borg^Queenclearly I'm doing something wrong since they are installed
MutantTurkeyBorg^Queen: what is the error
MutantTurkeyare your paths correct? verify that
Borg^Queenchecking for EBML... no
MutantTurkeydid you double check the paths?
Borg^Queenthat's the only error, not much feedback and yes, I checked the paths
Borg^Queenbut let me check again
MutantTurkeyis there an error file there?
MutantTurkeynot sure what it maybe be called, but look in the dir
MutantTurkeymay have some specificis
Borg^Queenyes they're correct
MutantTurkeyany error in the build files?
Borg^Queenchecking now
Borg^Queenone error
Borg^Queenconftest.cc: In function 'int main()':
Borg^Queenconftest.cc:15: error: 'exit' was not declared in this scope
Borg^Queenconfigure:3368: g++ -c -g -O2  conftest.cc >&5
Borg^Queenconftest.cc:11: error: 'void std::exit(int)' should have been declared inside 'std'
MutantTurkeyokay that seems unrelated to the includes
MutantTurkeyview the conftest.cc
Borg^QueenI know but just in case
MutantTurkeymaybe thier test is failing to build...
MutantTurkeylook at the file
Borg^QueenI see nothing
Borg^Queenwhat files should I be looking at
Borg^Queenit finds everything but that embl
MutantTurkeyno idea then :/
Borg^QueenAH! find newer versions
Borg^Queenhang on
Xu_Rkb9vqf: works OK :D
* Xu_R is now going to start throwing SuSE patches up knowing they don't get lost. hopefully.
MutantTurkeyany recommends on windows free laptops?
MutantTurkeyI don't want to pay the extra $150 for no reason.
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kb9vqfXu_R: They won't be lost
kb9vqftape backups are scheduled :)
kb9vqfjust remember...plain text patches ONLY (as attachments preferred)
kb9vqfno .gz stuff
MutantTurkeyno gz stuff?
Xu_RI always paste the patch into the message itself.
* Xu_R never messes with attachments
MutantTurkeyyeah I prefer that also
MutantTurkeyso you can review them in commenting back :)
kb9vqfand also so that patchwork will pick them up
kb9vqfpatchwork doesn't decompress tarballs due to the danger of a tarbomb
kb9vqfit's actually better than disk
kb9vqflower BER
kb9vqfhigher reliability
kb9vqflower cost
Xu_RI'm actually going to use a different email address for emailing patches because it's easier for me to keep track
MutantTurkeyany laptop recommends?
* kb9vqf has had "good" "enterprise class" disks fail way too often
kb9vqfI used to recommend Lenovo but I think their stuff has gone down the sewer lately
Xu_RLenovo is still pretty good.
Xu_Rbut yea, going down a bit faster than expected
Xu_Rhow about Toshiba?
kb9vqfThe new stuff has a pretty high failure rate
Borg^Queenlenovo rocks
* Xu_R thinks Toshiba is good
kb9vqfStay far away from Toshiba IMHO
Borg^Queentoshiba is very anti foss
Xu_Rah. figures.
* Xu_R only used Toshiba with windows
Borg^QueenI don't like toshiba, had business dealings with them, horrorible company
MutantTurkeyyeah I am thinking a stinkpad actually...
MutantTurkeyi like lenovo they are troopers
Xu_Rstinkpad LOL
kb9vqfMy r61 just keeps going...and going...
eldowanstinkpad indeed
MutantTurkeywell that name is obviously applied joking.
kb9vqfalso my T400
MutantTurkeybecause they are the #1 trusted brand for buisnesses.
Xu_Rah, my cousin has a T400. It broke in China, and we got it fixed pretty quickly
eldowanwe had almost every one of our old t41 era ones failed.
Borg^QueenMutantTurkey: my old ibm "stink" pad has been puked on by babies, thrown down a flight of stairs, and still works perfectly
eldowanBorg^Queen: really? we had almost the exact opposite experience
MutantTurkeyso I am thinking a stinkpad then.
Borg^Queeneldowan: ?
Xu_Ronly yours, Borg^Queen, will ever face torture like that
eldowanw/ the stinkpads
kb9vqfMy r61 has had water dropped on it, it's been sat on, and it still works great
Borg^QueenXu_R: wait til you have kids
MutantTurkeyreally that bad of luck? eldowan
eldowanwe had over 15 fail
eldowanand didn't even have 30 total
Borg^QueenI and curse you with a dozen kids
Borg^Queeneldowan: consumer or industrial machines
kb9vqfthe new ones eldowan?
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Borg^Queenthere's a HUGE differenece
eldowanBorg^Queen: business class, old IBM
Xu_RBorg^Queen: LOL.
eldowankb9vqf ^
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Xu_Rhow wonderful.
MutantTurkeyhummmm weird. got disconnected
eldowankb9vqf: gotta quick question about trinity for ya, fi you have the time
MutantTurkeyanyway, experience with lenevo is positive?
Borg^Queeneldowan: if they run windows, they were not industrial grade
Xu_Rlenovo = :D
Borg^QueenMutantTurkey: very positive. I even called them and ended up talking to 5 techs at once
eldowanBorg^Queen: aah, yeah, those were all old xp boxes
Borg^Queeneldowan: not industrial grade
MutantTurkeyspecifically which ones?
Borg^QueenGenerally the ones over 1k US with a 3 year warranty
eldowanours? t40 t41 t42 IIRC
Borg^Queenthe 1 year ones are consumers
MutantTurkeyBorg^Queen: I don't need warranty.
Borg^QueenIhave a t40
Borg^QueenMutantTurkey: and you don't need a helmet or hand rails
MutantTurkeyBorg^Queen: statistically not worth it...
kb9vqfwarranty is a good thing....
MutantTurkeystatistically warrantys are not worth it.
kb9vqfyes they are for one reason: infant death
Borg^QueenI have a t30 that was beaten to death, new HD and BOOM working for 5 years and going
kb9vqfthere is more and more infant death due to lower QC at the factory
kb9vqfno warranty == SOL
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: rreally?
MutantTurkeyits funny
MutantTurkeybecause normal companies will just give you a warranty and service
MutantTurkeyonly computer ones are assholes and charge extra...
kb9vqfdon't get me started on the new "enterprise" hard disks I tried to purchase
Borg^Queena computer is most likely to fail within 60 days of initial operation
kb9vqfthat's "infant death"
Borg^Queenaye exactly
MutantTurkeythen an included 1 year warrenty is nbest.
Borg^Queenif you get a industrial grade one, it will have linux and a 3 y war
MutantTurkeyBorg^Queen: link please
kb9vqfI can personally recommend up to the T400 series
Borg^Queena small Chinese man like Xu_R will follow you around of you get the special package
kb9vqfafter that things get dicey
Borg^Queent400 yes
kb9vqfsounds like a consumer model
MutantTurkeythey have a $700 sale.
MutantTurkeyi mean....
Borg^Queenavoid, the lowend and extremely high end
MutantTurkey1750 vs 1000
kb9vqfget the one with the mil-spec testing :)
Xu_Rt400 ftw
kb9vqfthe T400 had that testing and it just keeps going
MutantTurkeyI am going to take the train, we can talk more when i get home
Xu_RBorg^Queen: I'm freaking 6ft2...
Borg^Queenk be safe
Xu_Rwell, almost. like 6ft1...
Borg^QueenXu_R: ahh industrial grade chinese
Borg^QueenWait I thought you were mexican
MutantTurkeyt400 seems to be the older core2 models
MutantTurkeyi need one with the i3 i5 i7 series
Borg^Queenyes, but its rock solid
MutantTurkeyanyway gotta go!
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Borg^Queengn to all
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alexbobpI'm running trinity on debian
alexbobpone time I caught nepomuk using up 3GB of ram
alexbobpso I was wondering what nepomuk is for and how I can get rid of it if it's not important
Xu_Ralexbobp: nepomuk is part of kde4.
Xu_Ryou can remove it freely via your package manager.
alexbobpah okay
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eldowanalexbobp: when I log into my squeeze box I kill nepomuk and plasma-netbook and don't ahve any memory issues. if you remove nepomuk I think it may take all of kde4 away. I know that removing plasma-netbook wants to.
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backwoodsmanhi all..  any chance of binaries being made for Debian Testing? I'd like to install Trinity on Mint Debian, but it's based on Testing, and the Squeeze binaries won't install due to unresolved dependencies.
kb9vqfworking on compilation tests for Maverick now...binaries would be built after those are successful
backwoodsmanMaverick? I thought those were already available. In any case, would that work on Mint Debian?
kb9vqfyes--for 3.5.12
kb9vqfI'm tackling one problem at a time
kb9vqfby using a known-sane build environment I can know for certain that any problems I run into are a direct result of source changes from 3.5.12 to the current source HEAD revisions
kb9vqfonce the code is known-good then I will build against other environments that may or may not work properly the first tiem
kb9vqfand know that any problems I run into there are caused by the new environment, not fundamental flaws in the source code
backwoodsmansounds good..  I'll try the Maverick binaries on Mint 11, I believe that should work.
kb9vqflet us know if they work or not
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backwoodsmanNeither Maverick nor Debian Squeeze install instructions work on Linux Mint 11, due to broken dependencies.
backwoodsmanI guess I'll have to grit my teeth and install Ubuntu :)
alexbobpeldowan|afk: well... I'm A-OK with taking all of KDE 4 away :P
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joeytwiddlei still use XMMS too.  it rocks!
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eldowan|afkalexbobp: good deal. both the netbook-plasma and nepokserver are in /usr/bin and I just mv <> <>.old and they don't start at all. I do like some of hte kde4 apps, so I may keep it around a bit.
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kb9vqfXu_R: Keep adding patches to Patchwork...
* kb9vqf has already handled quite a few: http://patchwork.trinitydesktop.org/project/trinity/list/?state=*
Xu_Rkb9vqf: nice! :D
Xu_Rhmm... darn it - seems like patchwork mishandled some of my patches :-\
Xu_Rex. http://patchwork.trinitydesktop.org/patch/19/ it didn't get the whole patch
Xu_Rthe top half it got, the bottom half is still in the email message...
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mk_MPHi, is there anyone else active on the channel except robots?
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mk_MPHi, Borg^Queen, are you a bot or not?
Borg^QueenOf course I'm a bot
mk_MPGood. :-)
* Borg^Queen assimilates mk_MP
mk_MPI am new to this channel and on the search for information...
Borg^QueenAh ok shoot
mk_MPTrying to incorporate knowledge from the Borg.
mk_MPLook,  I only learnt about trinity project today.
mk_MPAny I am impressed.
Borg^QueenIts a great project, and getting better all the time. More and more distros are picking it up.
mk_MPI wondered whether trinity includes also QT3 and not only KDE3...
Borg^QueenIt does
mk_MPI see.
mk_MPThat sounds interesting indeed.
Borg^Queenit is
mk_MPLook, there is the idea to include trinity in MacPorts for Mac OS X.
mk_MPAt the moment there is qt3 and qt3-mac available and also kde3...
Borg^Queenkb9vqf: is the founder, he would be very interested in this
mk_MPbut there seems to be reoccuring trouble now.
mk_MPI learnt from a friend who recently upgraded to Lion with Xcode 4.1 that now (after selfupdateing and upgrading MacPorts) qt3 won't build anymore.
Borg^Queensounds like a bug in the recent update
Borg^Queenreport it to macports
mk_MPThis is a real pain, since up to now KDE3 had always been our safety net with respect to KMyMoney.
Borg^Queengood app kmymoney
mk_MPKMyMoney4 on KDE4 is still having loads of trouble.
Borg^Queenwhat are the error msgs?
Borg^Queeneverything in kde4 is having loads of trouble
mk_MPSo, KMyMoney 1.0.5 was always a safe fallback solution.
mk_MPWith a broken qt3 port this would be gone.
mk_MPFor me
mk_MPon Snow Leopart
mk_MPall is still okay
mk_MPbut my friend's machine is bonked with respect to KDE3.
mk_MPthe idea was to get trinity up and running via MacPorts.
mk_MPI saw from your webpage that there are only Linuxes up to now supported.
Borg^Queenkb9vqf: is the man to speak to, he's the founder and who know far more about fixing it than I would
mk_MPBut I think it would be really worthwhile to get it to life on Mac OSX, since it has evolved quite a bit since the 3.3.8 currently in qt3 port on MacPorts.
mk_MPOK, I wonder how I could contact kb9vqf...
Borg^Queenhang on
mk_MPwill do
kb9vqfXu_R: Submit your patches as attachments
kb9vqfBTW I'm here :)
kb9vqfI have NO mac experience whatsoever
mk_MPHi kb9vqf, good to see you here!
mk_MPGreat project!!!
kb9vqffile a bug at http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net with the compilation error message and I'll see if anything stands out :)
Borg^Queenoih there he is
mk_MPWell, I don't know whether I'll be able to contribute really. but I'd try to get it to build here on the Mac.
kb9vqfwe do maintain Qt3 so there is half a chance that I may be able to help
mk_MPAh, ok, also for qt3
kb9vqfI can't build it on a mac here (obviously) but if you provide the build logs I may be able to see what can be fixed
Borg^Queenkb9vqf: mac is a unix os (darwin) running a similair to kde3 UI
mk_MPGreat. Good to be in touch then.
kb9vqfBorg_Queen: I know :)
Borg^Queenah ok
kb9vqfbut as far as hands on experience...well
mk_MPYep, I'll use your bug tracker then. :-) Very good.
Borg^Queenkb9vqf: aye
* kb9vqf counted clicks for common tasks on one once--that's it :)
kb9vqfmk_MP: Sounds good
mk_MPIs there a tarball avilable for download for trinity?
kb9vqf3.5.12 is on the main page
mk_MPCouldn't find the right link on the main page. Must have been blind.
kb9vqfhmmm...maybe it used to be there and isn't anymore
* kb9vqf goes to look
mk_MPPlease do, there are only instruction, release notes and that is it.
kb9vqfIt's under the Releases tab
mk_MPAh, ok
kb9vqfclick 3.5.12 and there will be a tarball download like
mk_MPFound it.
mk_MPWould be better to have a more direct path to it. :-)
kb9vqfit is not obvious at all apparently :-P
kb9vqfMaybe "Downloads" would be better than "Releases"
* kb9vqf goes to change it now
mk_MPOK, I wonder what packages I'd need to get a running qt3 plus basic kde3, so that I'd be able to build kmymoney on to of that.
kb9vqffixed :)
mk_MPI don't see a qt3 package anywhere...
kb9vqfqt3, arts, kdelibs, kmymoney
kb9vqfqt3 is in our GIT repository
mk_MPAgain I am blind
kb9vqfyou caught us in the middle of a move to GIT
mk_MPTHat's not obvious from the releases page
kb9vqfno it is not
mk_MPI see.
kb9vqfas of the 3.5.12 release we were NOT maintaining qt3
mk_MPI'd like to have a tarball here as well.
mk_MPYOu are not?
kb9vqf3.5.12 was released a while ago
mk_MPI thought you did as well, as being part of kde3/trinity?!
kb9vqfwe decided to maintain qt3 after 3.5.12 was released
kb9vqfmake sense?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: oh - nah, I like them inline in the end :P besides, it didn't catch MutantTurkey's when he sent his as an attachment
kb9vqfit didn't make it into the 3.5.12 release notes for obvious reasons ;-)
mk_MPSo, I need a tarball of it as well.
kb9vqfhang on
kb9vqfThere is a link at the bottom for a .tar.gz file
mk_MPOK, see it
kb9vqfthis stuff is not publicly documented yet because 3.5.13 is not yet released
mk_MPNo release number is actually connected with it...
kb9vqf3.5.13 should come out in the fall if all goes well
mk_MPI see...
kb9vqfthen there will be more extensive release notes, including coverage of our qt3 repo
kb9vqfas of right now qt3 is at version 3.3.8d
kb9vqfbut that is not a final release
mk_MPok. qt3-mac is at 3.3.8b, I think.
kb9vqfif you find bugs while compiling qt3 please let us know
kb9vqfand we will attempt to fix the problems and include them in the official 3.3.8d release
mk_MPOK, I'll try to download the stuff and try to build it here.
kb9vqfinclude the patches that is :)
mk_MPOK, you 've to give me time though. I'm not the official maintainer of the qt3 port on MacPorts and have at first to figure out whether I can easily replace the current tarball against your modified one.
mk_MPOnce I've set it up I'll report back to you.
kb9vqfEmail on the mailing list may be easiest
mk_MPShall I use the bug tracker for communication with you
mk_MPor ML
kb9vqftrinity-devel or the bugtracker
mk_MPI see ML is best.
mk_MPI prefer ML
mk_MPfor discussions
mk_MPbt for bug.
kb9vqfkeeps it organized and neat :)
mk_MPOK, thatnks for now!!!
mk_MPWas great to talk to you!!!!
kb9vqfthanks, and thanks for offering to help in this area!
mk_MPThanks for your help so far, I'll come back to you through the list and perhaps also using IRC.
mk_MPYou are welcome. :-)
mk_MPOK, have to go to bed now.
kb9vqfsee ya
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kb9vqfXu_R: I have no idea why patchwork is eating inline patches
kb9vqfIt's not my code after all :-//
kb9vqfmaybe you want to ask upstream to the maintainer?
kb9vqfAlso mac support sounds good
kb9vqfI was wondering if kmymoney was really that bad under KDE4...I guess it is! :-P
kb9vqfBTW kmymoney is in our source tree as of a few weeks ago
* kb9vqf listens to the droning of crickets
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I think it's because I didn't format the email message correctly >_>
kb9vqfwell, don't do that :-P
kb9vqfWhich ones are corrupt
kb9vqfI'll mark them as rejected
Xu_Rboth of them, actually - (the ones with "Patches at Lincom" as the submitter)
Xu_RI'll resubmit them
kb9vqfAh, even better I was able to delete them
kb9vqfso submit away
Xu_Rnow to see if patchwork caught it.
kb9vqfXu_R: Also, any chance that I can get some help with fixing the bugs on the bugtracker....??
kb9vqf3.5.13 is blocked on that
kb9vqfand by help I mean that you guys puck a bug, fix it, and send a patch in to the bug report :)
kb9vqfI'm pretty busy on this end keeping up with the patches and fixing glitches that are not reported to the bugtracker yet
kb9vqfalso starting Natty builds, which will undoubtedly reveal a mass of steaming gcc4.6 problems
Xu_Rah, fun.
Xu_Ri'll check for any gcc46 patches I can find
* kb9vqf is not looking forward to it
kb9vqfHere's another fun Qt4-related glitch
kb9vqf /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.4.5/../../../../lib/libtqassistantclient.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
kb9vqfOnly happens on kdevelop, and only on amd64 :-P
Xu_Roh god, that sucks
kb9vqfOn the plus side I successfully built our Qt3.3.8d code under Debian
kb9vqfwith only 4 patches needed :)
kb9vqf(Debian/Ubuntu specific patches)
kb9vqfsure beats the several dozen (!) that were originally required
Xu_RD: wow. patchwork didn't catch my media-crypt_teardown.diff patch but caught the security one...
* kb9vqf goes to investigate
Xu_Roh, and it messed up the patch inline again.
* Xu_R sighs and gives up for now
kb9vqfbeats me :;/
Xu_Rkb9vqf: you already have the patches anyway, so i'm assuming it's thunderbird that's screwing me up
kb9vqfas I said...attach them....
Xu_Rkb9vqf: it didn't catch MutantTurkey's ODBC patch that he didn't attach inline D:
kb9vqfI don't have the patience or time to pick through the ML to find patches
Xu_RI know...
kb9vqfIf patchwork isn't working can you post the URLs to the patches in the ML archives on an Etherpad?
Borg^Queengn to all
Xu_Rnite borgy
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Pikikb9vqf, doesn't tbottu like being a tyrant? :-D
kb9vqfnot anymore
kb9vqfnot after his brain transplant
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kb9vqfI switched bots, as mozbot was not reliable enough
kb9vqfhe may become a tyrant again if login abilities are desired on this channel...time will tell
Pikiwhat bot are you using now?
Pikithe trinity-users ML is listed as high traffic, but it has fewer posts for july than trintiy-devel, which is listed as moderate :-P
kb9vqfyes, I did notice that
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hazridiI just installed network-manager-kde-trinity (I'm running squeeze) and it doesn't seem to function. My wifi card is working properly and I can set it up manually or with ceni.
hazridinevermind -- it was unmanaged due to being in /etc/network/interfaces
hazridinow trinity is pretty much KDE 3, but perfect
kb9vqfGlad to hear it :)
hazridispoke a little too soon, as it doesn't seem to want to connect to either of my APs... cnetworkmanager is working though
kb9vqfI assume you restarted your machine after removing the interface from /etc/network/interfaces?
kb9vqfif not sometimes networkmanager gets confused
hazridiI restarted network-manager...  using cnetworkmanager (cli interface to n-m) it connected OK
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s15y2Hi, would this bug: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124053 be hard to solve in trinity?
tbottu04Bug 124053: was not found.
s15y2"Having hundreds of feeds renders akregator useless."
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Borg^Queen Entities
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Borg^Queengn to all
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MutantTurkeyhey all
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Xu_Rsoo... what happened to tbottu? XD it looks like it had spazzing moments
kb9vqfI was getting messages in the logs requesting that I authenticate to Freenode....
kb9vqfso I had to set up the authentication plugin
kb9vqfthat little process required several reloads
Xu_Rlooks like tbottu is dictator again then...
kb9vqfobviously it's working then :)
kb9vqfif people here don't like it I can probably deop him, but personally I don't see the harm
MutantTurkeyI think he's good here.
Xu_Rkeep him :P
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Any progress on that "developers portal" page for the Website?
kb9vqfOr some bug fixes? :-)
kb9vqfXu_R: You too regarding the bug fixes...
kb9vqfMaybe someone can look at that oh-so-stale BOTW in the topic?
* kb9vqf is trying to keep things moving along....
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: honestly I am trying to pull some free time together for it
kb9vqfok, sounds good
MutantTurkeyI still am working on getting it all built.
MutantTurkeywhich makes me wonder if i should just do a debian install on another box to test and build trinity...
kb9vqfI'm also starting builds under Natty, so gcc4.6 issues should be resolved soon
Xu_Rkb9vqf: many of the bugs on that bugtracker I'm not reproducing... which leads me to wonder if system is working right.
Xu_R*if my system
kb9vqfIf you are not reproducing them flag that on the bug report
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: was I supposed to create the page? D: okay! :p
kb9vqfit is possible (likely even) that some of the more recent changes I put into SVN fixed some of the obscure bugs
kb9vqfthat could have been caused by memory corruption
kb9vqfkdesktop was leaking like a sieve on later gcc versions
kb9vqfthat has been fixed
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I'm planning on reinstalling my trinity VM ASAP, so I'll try to see if I can reproduce the bugs again
kb9vqfIf neither you nor MutantTurkey can reproduce a bug mark it as RESOLVED/INVALID and state that you cannot reporoduce it
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so the whole kdesktop problem is fixed in the svn right?
kb9vqfAlso ask the reporter to verify that he can reproduce it under the latest GIT
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Yes!
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: sweet.
kb9vqfvalgrind was helpful
kb9vqfbut it still took quite a while
MutantTurkeyI think i am going to clock out and get back to work
kb9vqfthe problems were obscure
MutantTurkeyon trinity
MutantTurkeywow its thundering and storming like crazy all of a sudden
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eldowanoh, nice
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: so you are also using tde-packaging right?
MutantTurkeythis git problem is a pain in the arse
MutantTurkeythe not being able to clone only parts of the tree
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: question abotu that odbc patch
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kb9vqflooks like I got bumped off
kb9vqfwhat was your question?
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MutantTurkeypiccoro said something, I have no idea what though.
kb9vqfIf that is the same patch I am thinking of, yes, it was applied to the Qt3 branch in GIT
kb9vqfnot sure though, and I'm not going to go picking through random tarballs to find out!
MutantTurkeymine or his?
MutantTurkeymine was a few lines
MutantTurkeyupdates a few defintions thats all
kb9vqfis yours not in GIT?
MutantTurkeythats why I sent it in to see...
kb9vqflink please?
kb9vqfif it was in patchwork I probably already processed it
kb9vqfBTW did I mention how much I hate Qt4? http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=commit&p=Trinity%%20Desktop%%20Environment&h=a7b8e6024196412a8849d00f68c01512dbf80e37
MutantTurkeyInvalid Project?
MutantTurkeylink is a no go
MutantTurkeywell, qt3 is building so far :) so hopefully that's one thing out of the way
kb9vqfinvalid project?
kb9vqfon the git link I just posted?
kb9vqfhmm, you're right
MutantTurkeyI see it though
MutantTurkeyI looked at it by the commit md5 or whatever
MutantTurkeyNokia is seriously dropping the ball lately.
kb9vqfTry this
kb9vqfah, ok
MutantTurkeyyeah I got it. but that's ridiculous
kb9vqfI mean seriously, what's so hard about making sure that a double is actually a *double* so that comparisons work?!?
MutantTurkeyQt4 seems less and less viable haha.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: did you report it?
kb9vqfno, because I don't have time to put together a test case
kb9vqfand I saw a couple bugs already
kb9vqfalong those lines
kb9vqfNokia's answer: "Tough rocks"
kb9vqfactually they went on about how double is an approximation
kb9vqfand this is to be expected
kb9vqfall I know is that behaviour like that is going to break a lot of code bery subtly
kb9vqfIn this case (TQString("3.3").toDouble() > 3.3) was returning TRUE!
MutantTurkeyyeah they are dumb.
MutantTurkeyhow is "approximately" large?
MutantTurkeylarger than?
kb9vqfI know
kb9vqfthis worked:
kb9vqfIn this case (TQString("3.2999999999").toDouble() > 3.3) was returning TRUE!
kb9vqfthat is, (TQString("3.2999999999").toDouble() > 3.3) returned false
kb9vqfas it is supposed to
MutantTurkeyoh man
kb9vqfand only on i386...and only on gcc4.6....
kb9vqf(i.e. Ubuntu Natty i386)
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Can you check this again?
kb9vqfrsync rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqfI'm getting complaints of failure on the QuickBuild IP address again
kb9vqfyet the mirrors synced up normally this morning (???)
MutantTurkeyalso, if you want to make me a package mirror I could do that.
MutantTurkeyI am getting nothing.
MutantTurkeyit is just hnaging
kb9vqf /sarcasm
kb9vqfNow I get to wonder if my ISP is throttling/disconnecting that port or if I had something fail
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Xu_Rsorry for that random d/c
Xu_Rwindows is so lovely.
MutantTurkeyhonestly the windows desktop experience IMHO is way ahead of linux right now
MutantTurkeyfor regular users.
Xu_RI know...
Xu_Rbut the stability can kiss my @$$
MutantTurkeyyeah seriously
* kb9vqf reminds MutantTurkey of Windows 8
MutantTurkeywindows 8?
kb9vqfick ick ick
kb9vqfgoogle it
Xu_Rthat new interface makes vista nice
* kb9vqf knows *gag*
Xu_Rnice to know i'm not the only one thinking that XD
kb9vqfunlike Linux, there is no Windows 7 UI fork possible...
kb9vqfLinux may show its strengths ye
MutantTurkeyIt's like the windows 7 phone
kb9vqfwell, I like to think I am in control of my desktop, and that just won't do it
kb9vqfI never feel fully in control of a cell phone :-P
Xu_RMutantTurkey: yup
MutantTurkeyso is it for a desktop or not?
kb9vqfyes, that's their new desktop
kb9vqfthat and they want all people to program desktop apps in HTML5 and JavaScript
kb9vqfno C/C++/etc. allowe
MutantTurkeywhat about C#?
Xu_Rthey want .net to die too now...
kb9vqfNothing but HTML5 and JavaScript
MutantTurkeythat was like a big microsot thing
MutantTurkeyI mean this doesn't feel like a pc
* kb9vqf thinks there will probably be a 6-figure cost for the "developers edition"
MutantTurkeyit's all touch based?
Xu_Rthey expect all the PCs to be touch now
kb9vqfNow I am so glad that I don't do that Windows thing
MutantTurkeyyeah seriosuly
MutantTurkeythis is great for linux!
Xu_RI still need windows for apps... D:
MutantTurkeyXu_R: no you wont
Xu_R(thank god for virtualbox full screen mode)
MutantTurkeyall windows apps are going to be javascript + html.
MutantTurkeyso they will be cross platform...
Xu_RI mean current apps
Xu_Rthat aren't JS/HTML
kb9vqfthis sounds suspiciously like limiting the ability to generate new content
kb9vqf== big bucks paid to the few who have the tools to generate new content
Xu_Rit sounds like Apple.
kb9vqfand I mean quality "AAA" content
MutantTurkeybut you can still get to the old shell right?
Xu_RMutantTurkey: we're doubting that right now
kb9vqfnot for long if M$ follows its history
kb9vqfgeneral purpose computing, where everyone has the tools to develop new things, seems to be going away
kb9vqfit's sad really
MutantTurkeytime for linux to rise :)
Xu_RI hope so :D
MutantTurkeynot the way gnome3 is going...
kb9vqfhence this project
MutantTurkeythey did the same thing as windows 8
MutantTurkeyI think xfce4 and triinty are the only two really good ones.
kb9vqf"Want to be a CREATOR, not just a CONSUMER?"
MutantTurkeyas far as DE's
kb9vqfwe need a slogan
MutantTurkeyI wish xfce was a bit more flxible.
Xu_RMutantTurkey: the only nice thing about GNOME 3 is extensions that allow you to completely change it (and make it gnome 2)
MutantTurkeyI think that the "app" idea could come to trinity but i don't see how
MutantTurkeywithout bloating it up
MutantTurkeyI DO like the windows 8 shell they showed for maybe using on a mobile phone or a television screen
MutantTurkeybut not for a PC though
kb9vqfapp idea?
kb9vqfwhat specifically?
Xu_Rhow about extensions?
kb9vqfto do what?
Xu_Ractually, scratch that for now. I'm not thinking right
* kb9vqf notes that the framework for "extensions" is probably already there
* Xu_R is reinstalling trinity as we speak
kb9vqfin fact the entire UI theming system is a type of "extension"
MutantTurkeyright that would be cool
MutantTurkeykde3 is all module-ized
MutantTurkeylike even with kparts and such
kb9vqfyes it is
kb9vqfso I ask again:
kb9vqfwhat do you mean by extensions?
kb9vqfwhat new functionality did you want to see?
MutantTurkeyI am not sure what he means
MutantTurkeysocial networking extensions would be great
Xu_Rwhat I meant by extensions is like what GNOME Shell did - to customize the interface. that's why I said scratch that for now
kb9vqfah, ok
kb9vqfbecause we have that
kb9vqfthere's even a theme to make a pretty good copy of OSX
* kb9vqf is not into social networking
MutantTurkeyI know :P
kb9vqfbut if one of you wanted to work on such a thing... :)
kb9vqfI would almost suggest that those functions should not be part of the desktop core like KDE4
kb9vqfbut rather be added to Kopete/Kontact or some other systray resident app
kb9vqfor even a new systray app
MutantTurkeygood thinking
Xu_Rjust curious - have any of you also tried GNOME shell already?
kb9vqfthat's the sad thing: KDE4 requires you to interrupt your workflow and go to a widget embedded in the desktop, whereas the old systray model allows the user to receive/handle notifications without much interruption--
Xu_R(and the extensions system?)
kb9vqfclick and the window is up, click again and it's gone
kb9vqfXu_R: no I have not
kb9vqfand probably will not
MutantTurkeyless interuption is avorable
MutantTurkeyXu_R: I have.
kb9vqfthat's the Trinity model
* Xu_R agrees
kb9vqfin fact, the "docked apps" crud nowdays is just the systray model applied to arbitrary apps
kb9vqfwe could do that with probably a few hundred lines of code or less
MutantTurkeyyeah good thinking
kb9vqfbut why?
kb9vqfit takes effort to design a good systray app
MutantTurkeyif its not useful, then we shouldn't do it.
kb9vqfIMO that's what the taskbar is for ;-)
MutantTurkeyI do think a certain amount of "new" stuff is good in a release!
kb9vqfof course!
kb9vqfbut let's make it good new stuff
kb9vqfnot rehashing old ideas
kb9vqfsomething sorely lacking is the equivalent of the Windows display control center
kb9vqfthat does not exist under ANY linux DE AFAIK
Xu_Rwhen you mean display control center
MutantTurkeydisplay control?
Xu_Ryou're talking like the drivers, screen resolution?
MutantTurkeyI mean xfce has it
MutantTurkeyhold up
kb9vqfhng on
MutantTurkeylet me get a screen
MutantTurkeyI don't know how it handles multiple monitors or anything ( i don't know much about how it works, and only have one screen)
Xu_RI'm thinking kb9vqf means more like options that you can only find by modifying Xorg.conf...?
MutantTurkeyXorg.conf doesn't exist anymore doesi t?
MutantTurkeyI know at least archlinux dropped it by default...
Xu_Rit's dropped by default, but you can still use it (Xorg.conf.d) and sometimes autoconfiguration doesn't work well
Xu_RI know it's one reason that openSUSE went to work on making SaX3 (xorg config tool)
MutantTurkeyand doesn't kde4 have a decent one?
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kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Try the GIT now
kb9vqfmdadm decided to reconstruct the array on /dev/sdx instead of /dev/sdx1 :-P
Xu_Rkb9vqf: is the keyserver up?
kb9vqfDunno yet
kb9vqfmdadm gave enough of a scare that I haven't checked
kb9vqftry the rsync
kb9vqfrsync rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqfif that works then they keyserver will be up shortly
Xu_Ri'm not supposed to be getting timeouts, right?
Xu_R(both keyserver and rsync report a timeout)
MutantTurkeyrsync hangs
MutantTurkeygit is up
kb9vqfrsync is on the malfunctioning interface
kb9vqfthe one that prompted the reboot
kb9vqfI'll have to look into it further
Xu_Ri'm guessing the malfunctioning interface is quickbuild?
kb9vqfit was working just fine this morning
kb9vqfand all indications are it still works from this end
kb9vqfso I'm wondering if my ISP is actually having the problem ATM
MutantTurkeydid you call them?
Xu_Rprobably. do they have a status page?
kb9vqfno time yet
kb9vqfstill working on bringing services up from the reboot
kb9vqfi'll let you guys know when I know something
MutantTurkeyqt is building away.
Xu_Rbrb early dinner
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kb9vqfMutantTurkey, Xu_R: Back online
kb9vqfthe modem kicked the interface
kb9vqfrebooting fixed it
kb9vqfXu_R: Can you please check the keyservers?
kb9vqfevery now and then it seems the ISP rejects a MAC address, especially under high load
kb9vqfif this keeps up I will have to figure out why
kb9vqfI take it everything is working now/
MutantTurkeyI was cleaning my fan on my heatsink on an old computer a friend gave me, tried to take the fan off and the whole cpu and heatsink came with it...
kb9vqfA Pentium 4?
MutantTurkeyceleron D
MutantTurkeyjust a little behind a P4
kb9vqfthey have a nasty habit of gluing to the heatsink
MutantTurkeyI hated P4's
MutantTurkeybut they were good workhorses
MutantTurkeyran hot as hell
kb9vqfthe bad old days!
MutantTurkeythe bad old days
MutantTurkeynow I have a slick atom :)
kb9vqfwhich can't do very much IIRC
kb9vqfmaybe those were the good old days :)
MutantTurkeythey do absolutely nothing :)
MutantTurkeybut nothing@12W@20C...
MutantTurkeythe computer paid itself off in power savings two years
kb9vqfah, but what services did you have to pay for to replace the lost functionality?
MutantTurkeyGAH BENT PIN :[ Processor is now useles.. ._.
kb9vqffor example if you were building software you would now have to pay for an external build service, etc.
Xu_Rchecking the keyservers
Xu_Rkeyservers working
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Any chance you could set your VPS to check the status of the primary Trinity services (keyserver, etc.) and send an Email to me if they are down
kb9vqfin an automated way?
kb9vqfThat would be a GREAT help
kb9vqfor even poke me privately on IRC, but that is probably more complex
Xu_Rthat sounds like pinging each of your subdomains...
kb9vqfping won't work
kb9vqfbut if you can telnet to 80 on my two IP addressess then everything is OK
kb9vqfI can write the status check software if you want
kb9vqfit would probably be in bash though
kb9vqfthe problem is I have no way of knowing if external access to either IP is actually working
kb9vqfe.g. this recent problem still allowed internally generated traffic through (!??!?)
kb9vqfI really wish Internet service in the USA was more reliable :-/
kb9vqfNo one wants to spend money to make it so
MutantTurkeyhmmm seems complicated
MutantTurkeyif you want to just write a script that I can cron
MutantTurkeyit would be good
kb9vqfI'll see what I can do
kb9vqfI just have no way of knowing if something is inaccessible until someone mentions it right now
kb9vqfwhich is not a good way to handle the site
MutantTurkeyI agree.
MutantTurkeyI could have my vps check hourly, and send you an automated phone call or something?
MutantTurkeybecause if the website goes down, how can we reach you?
MutantTurkeyI guess on the irc also would work
kb9vqfemail usually stays up
kb9vqfif email is down then I have automated checks that let me know anayway
kb9vqfcan I just use the mail command on your VPS?
kb9vqfor is that not configured?
MutantTurkeynot configured unfortunately :|
MutantTurkeyI haven't bothered to set anything up, I don't know how complicated it is
kb9vqfsee nullmailer
MutantTurkeyI have dinner right now, and my girlfriend will be over. hopefully I can hop on tonight
MutantTurkeyAssume mail command does wokr.
MutantTurkeyI will get it up and going
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grand_gruntHi! :)
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grand_gruntI think I found a bug: when lauching kolourpaint (from trinity), then opening and editing a file from a sshfs mount, then closing kolourpaint, then umounting sshfs, at next launch kolourpaint stays stalled.
grand_gruntstrace shows that it tries to access the last opened file.
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grand_gruntalso, sshs was "unmounted" an ugly way, bash is also stalled when trying to ls it. But it is less obvious to guess where the trouble comes from when launching kolourpaint.
MutantTurkeygrand_grunt: hey
MutantTurkeycan you file that bug report?
grand_gruntYep, sure.
MutantTurkeythat's really easier for us
MutantTurkeythat way we don't loose track of bugs :)
grand_gruntWas talking here first in case someone would say "corrected in latest version" or "already filled in 4 times"
MutantTurkeygrand_grunt: what version are you running?
MutantTurkeyIt might not occur.
MutantTurkeyjust file the bug report that way we deal with it :)
MutantTurkeybut i've gotta go! good luck with the bug and thanks for reporting it!
grand_gruntversions: http://pastebin.com/f18zXNGy
grand_gruntI must insist that sshfs was in ugly state, thinking twice. But used to it for direct access ("ok, stalled because I broke the ssh session"), not for a bare launching of kolourpaint.
MutantTurkeyonce you report it, one of use running the SVN version can check to replicate the error, it might have beenfixed already
grand_gruntHere it is: http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=488
tbottu04Bug 488: minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kolourpaint, okular (maybe others) are frozen by defuncted SSHFS mount.
Xu_Rkb9vqf: are you doing nightly builds for squeeze?
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grand_grunthttp://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1311639437.png <= wanted to share this with you :)
grand_gruntgood night, kind developpers.
grand_gruntBTW, servers for Trinity repository seems to be lagging sometimes. I own two 100Mb/s servers, can do mirrors if this may help. Just query me, will se later. going to sleep.
kb9vqfXu_R: Not yet for Squeeze; Natty isn't even fully built yet
Xu_Rkb9vqf: which has nightly builds? because if squeeze doesn't I would like to be able to have one with nightly builds
kb9vqfMaverick is fully built
kb9vqfNatty is next (in process)
kb9vqfthen Squeeze, then (maybe) Unstable\
kb9vqfXu_R: Check the keyserver please
Xu_Rworking here...
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Xu_Rthe borg arrives...
kb9vqfXu_R: hmm, had someone write and say that it was still down where he was at
Xu_Rkb9vqf: strange. it's working fine here...
kb9vqfHe did this
kb9vqfapt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqf--recv-keys 2B8638D0
kb9vqfwhich would work I would think
Xu_Ryea - that's the same command I used
Xu_Rit works here
kb9vqfI may have to move that function to the other IP address
* kb9vqf does not look forward to that
Xu_Rdoesn't sound fun.
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: you said you were doing builds for natty...  mind if I have a link to what you have so far? (because I accidentally installed Natty instead of Maverick)
Xu_Rit'll be a good way for me to test for any strange behavior too.
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kb9vqfXu_R: It's not much yet, but here you go....  https://quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/~trinity/+archive/trinity-nightly-builds/
kb9vqfas in, I only have arts and kdelibs in there so far :-P
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I know I said it would get the whole mail thing setup
MutantTurkeybut what was supposed to be a nice night out to dinner with my famiily ended up being a disaster
MutantTurkeyheavy flash flooding caused alot of water in my basment
MutantTurkeyI have been bailing it out with a shop vac most of the night.
MutantTurkeyat this point I am wet, tired and smelling musty
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hazridiSo, I noticed knetworkmanager seems to fail at connecting to an AP using WPA1/AES, while it connects fine to an AP that is advertising WPA2 support
kb9vqfhazridi: That is a useful bit of information
kb9vqfCan you please verify that the gnome network manager successfully connects to the WPA1/AES AP?
kb9vqfif so a bug report may need to be filed against knetworkmanager
hazridinot gnome, no
hazridibut cnetworkmanager worked fine
hazridi(cli network manager client)
hazridihow hard is it to build trinity components on squeeze? if I can use apt for the source I could take a look at it
kb9vqfhazridi: It shouldn't be too hard
kb9vqfuse the Maverick repository
kb9vqfor wait a few weeks for the Squeeze nightly builds to start
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grand_gruntWould you like a mirror server? What are the requirements?
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raevynHi! My date/time applet I have has suddenly started showing me the timezone I am in, and no longer the date. Does anyone know how to correct that?
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Space_Manhi l0ner
Space_Mangrand_grunt: kb9vqf controls the master repo, there maybe a mirror somewhere idk
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MTurkeyawesome!  just testing out my phone app for the meeting later.
Space_Manl0ner: about 8 hours ago"<grand_grunt> Would you like a mirror server? What are the requirements?"
MTurkeythere is a devel meeting tonight at 1900
Space_Manthere is a meeting later today
l0nerdidn't know
Space_Man"... tonight at 1900" what time zone?
l0nerSpace_Man: i've seen mirror for .deb packages somewhere (university of idaho or smthin), but requires key from kb9vqf server
MTurkeyor Easter Daylight Time (because of daylight savings )
l0nerand EST is UTC+?
l0nerright now
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l0neri'm asking since i never really understood how EST works...
Space_Manits like standard time and on the east
l0neruh... I'm trying to build trinity from svn sources on my gentoo
l0nerfirstpass: tqtinterface. Error: "Your Qt3 is not patched for compatibility with tqtinterface"...
kb9vqfbuild our Qt3 branch first
kb9vqfand install it
kb9vqfbuild sequence is Qt3->tqtinterface->arts->kdelibs->kdebase
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l0nerI installed qt3 from kde-sunset, thought it might work
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l0neractually I'm on kde from kde-sunset, and I'm already tired of fighting agains updates to kde 4 ;/
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l0neruh. Question: where I can find trinity qt3 branch? Can't find it on svn
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MTurkeyXu_R: got irc on phone
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Xu_R_MTurkey: nice
Xu_R_i was just having server troubles here, but seems to be fixed now
Xu_Rso lemme close that webchat...
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* Xu_R had to upgrade his router to use DD-WRT because there were problems with the old firmware that never got fixed
MTurkeyso router is all ok now?
kb9vqfl0ner: It is in our GIT tree at http://git.trinitydesktop.org
kb9vqfunder Trinity Desktop Environment->main->dependencies
kb9vqfyou can download a tarball via the link on the bottom of the webgit page
l0nerwill look now
l0nerwhy etherpad access is under registration now? wasn't something like month ago...
MTurkeyl0ner:we reset the ether
MTurkeykb9vqf: still have trouble with qt3. building ok though now
MTurkeypackaging function is messy still
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Borg^Queenhey people wanted let you guys know I can't be here for the meeting, been working 26 hrs straight. I'm off to sleep.
Borg^QueenJust didn't want you lads and lasses to think you were being ditched.
Borg^Queengn to all
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* Strangelv missed the meeting announcement
Strangelv:: scrolls up and sees something that looks like 18:00 CDT
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l0nerok, I can't compile qt3
Space_Manpastebin the output - last few lines with the error messages
Space_ManI've never built qt3 or trinity
Space_Manbut somebody here might be able to help
l0nererror http://pastebin.com/4jswE6wF
l0nerI don't like using binaries or binary-based distros. They feel bloated
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kb9vqfl0ner: Pull Qt3 from GIT again and retry your build
kb9vqfA patch snuck in that should not have been included, as it is Debian specific
l0nerok, will report if the build was successful
kb9vqfok, if not please verify the hash of your GIT pull, it should be 11b82515f821fbdbdd6b04f3e6695b710d1e70cd
kb9vqfXu_R: Please send all the patches you have to me directly
kb9vqfI will manually put them into Patchwork
kb9vqfsend them as individual attachments
kb9vqfon one Email message
kb9vqfyour Email program was inserting line breaks into the patch text, which made the patches completely unusable
kb9vqfI would like to get them in to kdebase BEFORE I do the multi-distro rebuild
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I'll try to ASAP - right now my computer is having problems...
Xu_R(you can always pull from build.opensuse.org too)
Xu_Rkb9vqf: when are you going to do the multi-distro rebuild?
kb9vqfworking on starting it now...but only up to kdelibs
kb9vqfI only want the patches that are not already in SVN ;-)
kb9vqfso if you could pre-filter them for me it would be a great help
Xu_RI'll try to ASAP.
kb9vqfOK, thanks :)
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MTurkeywork is slow
eldowan15 more minutes...
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l0nerdamn my laptop is overheating
kb9vqfqt3 compilation can be nasty
kb9vqftry slowing down your CPU
l0neralready did
kb9vqfblow out the dust from the CPU fan vent with a high pressure air source ;-)
l0nertheorically the pcu should slow down by itself
l0nerdid this morning
kb9vqfup to a point
kb9vqfwhat CPU is it?
l0nerintel i3 m350
l0nerbut it's samsung laptop
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l0nerand this is the main problem
kb9vqfwith an undersized fan no doubt
kb9vqfusually putting the CPU on max power saving will keep it running
kb9vqfeither that or use ctrl+z to suspend the compilation
kb9vqfthen run 'fg' to resume it when the CPU is cool enough
l0nerand some obscure functions in bios for power management
l0nerthis is what i've been doing
kb9vqfah, OK
kb9vqfI can't help much then :)
l0nerbut i got distracted, temp went up and laptop shut down
kb9vqfyou do know we have Qt3 for Maverick and Natty in the nightly builds....
kb9vqfnot sure which distro you are on
kb9vqfthat won't help then!
l0neri tried ubuntu
l0neri just can't get over with dependencies, bloatware, and how binary distros forces things on me
l0nerafter you tried one time gentoo, you are long gone
l0neryou will never return to binary
kb9vqfwell, when you have a fleet of computers to maintain binaries sound quite good ;-)
l0neryou bet
l0nerwhoah! that was unexpected.
l0nerI'm beginning to wonder if my cpu reports it's temp right...
l0nerpaused compilation and temp went instantly from 86C to 60C
l0nerhow can I access the trinity eherpad? wanted to take a look on cmake porting status
-Xu_R- Attention: Meeting in #trinity-desktop-meeting at 1900 EDT (that would be 25 minutes from now)
grand_gruntkb9vqf: Does the trinity project have enough servers with enough bandwidth?
kb9vqfgrand_grunt: so far, as far as I can tell, yes, BUT if you want to be a mirror we'd be glad to have you
kb9vqfall you need is a server with enough monthly bandwidth to handle file transfers daily
kb9vqfi.e. no cap
kb9vqfno monthly transfer cap, and no residential connections
kb9vqfunless you are lucky enough to have fiber in your area ;-)
l0nerlive in japan and you probably will
-Xu_R- Meeting starting in ~1 minute(s).
grand_gruntkb9vqf: I have too servers in France, with no cap on bandwidth (France is still a nice country for this)
grand_gruntIf you got a pointer about "How to make a mirror" I would be happy to do one
kb9vqfhang on a bit
kb9vqfin a meeting
l0nerquiet idea: a mirror of site and pgp keyserver would be nice too, since from what I've seen they have problems sometimes...
grand_gruntAnother idea: some round robin DNS would be also nice
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Xu_Rnow to fix this computer. brb
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kb9vqfgrand_grunt: I do have round robin set up for the mirrors
kb9vqfyou can rsync from rsync://rsync.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqfsend me the URL when you complete the initial download
kb9vqfset it to sync every day or so
kb9vqf(every 24 hours)
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l0nerok, i finished compiling qt3
l0nerbut it
l0nerstays in build dir
l0nerand don't go to dir included in $QTDIR
* l0ner is going to getsome sleep. Needs to wake up in 7 hours.
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grand_gruntkb9vqf: Ok, thanks :)
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Strangelv_Did I completely miss the meeting?
* Strangelv_ was distracted by getting his air conditioning repaired
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Xu_RStrangelv_: yea :(
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: can you update the meeting page on the wiki once your logs sync?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I've been reviewing the links on the main website, i thikn some of them can just go into the devel section of the website.
Xu_Rsure - but feel free to remind me, I might forget
kb9vqfjust make me a list... :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I think patches, SVN, andRoadmap can go into it.
kb9vqfsend along those suggestions in the Email :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: :) ok!
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: also is that news system I setup working ok?
kb9vqfit's great!
MutantTurkeyI knew it would be, simple and easy!
kb9vqfwhen natty nightly builds are done there will be a new new entry...
MutantTurkeyI also am looking into using your quickbuilds for archlinux. In fact it's often quite easy to convert packages to different distros
MutantTurkeythat might save me a lot of trouble, building and packaging wise
kb9vqfsounds good to me
kb9vqfif you manage to automate the conversion process let me know
kb9vqfand I will autogenerate the Arch packages
kb9vqfwith your automated scripts
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: ok that would be cool.
MutantTurkeyyou could also just build them regularly.
MutantTurkeyall you need is our package manager installed (not managing, just installed) I think you could just do that.
kb9vqfwhat format are your packages?
Xu_Rwhich makes me wonder - kb9vqf - when we move to git, will we have hooks set up? I can just have the hooks call a rebuild of any packages
kb9vqf.deb, .rpm?
kb9vqfyes, hooks will be available
Xu_Rgreat - all I need is an API call to api.o.o.
MutantTurkeyits a custom one :)
kb9vqfI can't easily do release updates with that as QuickBuild can't understand it, but I can provide nightly / automated builds and let you pick and choose the release package set
kb9vqfnot sure yet
MutantTurkeyright we can talk later.
MutantTurkeyalso, could you send me current php page from the website? they are all post-processed so it's not good to use
MutantTurkeywait... maybe if i just use one that isn't using any formatting it'll be ok.
MutantTurkeyActually, I probably need one emailed to me :P
kb9vqfI can add the PHP stuff
kb9vqfI just need the body :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: ok I will send just the body portion
MutantTurkeyalso: http://ekaia.org/blog/2011/02/07/post-and-pre-release-fun/
MutantTurkeythat notes that "One of the goals for wheezy is remove completely KDE 3 and Qt 3. "
MutantTurkeywheezy is debian 7
kb9vqfnice :-P
kb9vqfI'll be providing Qt3 anyway
kb9vqfQt4 is NOT a replacement for certain workloads
kb9vqfand I would hate for people to stop using Debian or Linux
kb9vqfjust because Qt4 is a bloated unstable piece of garbage sometimes
MutantTurkeyyes I feel the same way about gtk3 (which is even worse that 2.x...)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf:other than links, do we need anything else?
kb9vqfstopped using GTK as soon as the tools became steaming piles of trash
kb9vqfthe graphical dev tools that is
kb9vqfwhen the icons in buttons start overlapping on the text with no way to fix it...well....
MutantTurkeyI never have worked with the graphical dev tools (didn't even realized they existed)
MutantTurkeyI am only using them for simple applications anyhow
kb9vqfA quick description of the development tools and mailing list might be nice, but other than that for now the links alone are OK
kb9vqfYes, they exist(ed)
Xu_Rand they're crap
kb9vqfbut rapidly became a mess
MutantTurkeyXu_R: I actually like gtk for small things.
MutantTurkeyI am neither a qt or gtk guy though
kb9vqfI use Qt4 for small things
MutantTurkeyI prefer good old ncurses :)
kb9vqfthat are unlikely to grow
kb9vqfbasically only for single-purpose apps that should never be expected to blend in with any DE :)
MutantTurkeyshould i link to git.trinity or scm.trinity
MutantTurkeyXu_R: lol did you see the picture at my work today? slowest shift ever.
Xu_Rlooking now...
Xu_Rlol nice.
MutantTurkeyfinally got my glasses.
MutantTurkeyweird to adjust
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: Xu_R: so far: SVN, git, devel web (wiki), roadmap, etherpad, Nightly builds, mailing list
MutantTurkeysorry, the page title and name is wrong, but content?
MutantTurkeyalso CSS isn't applied
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HardDisk_WPi'm one of the LiMux developers of the city of Munich
HardDisk_WPwe're using Trinity 3.5.12 and have a problem
HardDisk_WPwhen you right-click on the Home tab of the side bar, the contextmenu opens only if you click on the top ("Home") entry
HardDisk_WPwhen you right-click on the subdirectories, nothing happens
HardDisk_WPthe other tabs (bookmarks) are not affected by this problem, right-clicking works there
HardDisk_WPany idea?
Space_ManHardDisk_WP: I'm not a Trinity developer, I'm only a user
Space_Manbut I do remember there was some discussion of a bug that affected Konqueror
Space_Manthe mouse right click did not work on the directories in the left hand column
Space_ManI think it was fixed a few months ago by samellian
Space_Manlook in the git repo :P
Space_Manor ask on the mailing list
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slackware_userHi! is it possible to install trinity on debian sid?
MutantTurkeyslackware_user: not on slackware?
MutantTurkeyyes it is possible!
slackware_userwhere to get build scripts or something?
MutantTurkeywe provided packages
slackware_userfor SID?
MutantTurkeymaybe not
MutantTurkeyisn't sid stable now?
slackware_usersid always unstable
MutantTurkeyoh :x
slackware_userso it may be worth to make buildscripts or something
MutantTurkeymaybe try our packages though
MutantTurkeyit may work
MutantTurkeythere are  squeeze packages
eldowanit works great on squeeze!
slackware_useri try to install them now
slackware_userbroken packages...
slackware_userunmet dependencies
slackware_useris it possible to publish build scripts for debian?
MutantTurkeywell for the scripts, you could ask kb9vqf
kb9vqfdebian build files are in our GIT tree
kb9vqfbut be forewarned we currently have gcc4.6 issues
kb9vqfthese are being solved now
slackware_userscripts are for svn or for releases?
kb9vqfyou might want to use the Ubuntu Maverick build files for now
kb9vqfthey are just the debian directories for each source folder in SVN
kb9vqfyou have to copy the appropriate debian directory to the appropriate SVN source folder
kb9vqfthen run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
kb9vqfin each source folder
kb9vqfthis is automated on my systems, but tightly integrated with QuickBuild
kb9vqfso my scripts would be of no use to you
kb9vqfbut the debian/ folders in GIT are universal
slackware_userok. i ll try
slackware_userwhat's url of git repo?
kb9vqfhang on
kb9vqfgit clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging
kb9vqfthe debian/* build folder will only work with 3.5.12
kb9vqfthe ubuntu/maverick/* build folder will only work with SVN
kb9vqfJust keep that in mind :)
slackware_userok. i ll first try to build 3.5.12
kb9vqfyes, updates are planned, currently in the middle of a Natty build that is draining the build system resources quite badly
slackware_userbtw how soon can be released 3.6?
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kb9vqfnot sure yet
kb9vqfwe're waiting on bugfixes
kb9vqfso it really depends on how complex they end up being
kb9vqfI'd like to see 3.5.13 released in the late fall 2001
kb9vqf2011 rather
raevynHello. Does anyone know why Pidgen wont run in Trinity?
kb9vqfprobably an issue with the Trinity file picker
slackware_userbtw.. after clone debian folder contains 2 folders which are empty
kb9vqfnever uploaded Debian to GIT I guess :-/
kb9vqfyou can use the ubuntu/maverick_automake folder to build 3.5.12
raevynfile picker?
raevynis there a way to fix it?
kb9vqfraevyn: Try this
kb9vqfgo to a terminal and run
slackware_user2 folders with .gitignore
kb9vqfLD_PRELOAD= pidgin
kb9vqfslackware_user: ubuntu/maverick_automake is not empty on my end
raevynthat works! just typing pidgin gives a segmentation fault
kb9vqfraevyn: Then there is definitely a problem with the file picker
kb9vqfany chance you can get a backtrace with GDB and create a bug report?
kb9vqfso that it can be fixed in 3.5.13?
slackware_userubuntu/maverick isnt empty
raevyn:( Im sorry.. if i was walked through I could
kb9vqfthat's ok
kb9vqfI can do the same thing eventually
kb9vqfjust create a bug report for now, unless one already exists
kb9vqfslackware_user: See http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment%20Packaging&h=5b9d7093413631b6975997955bef919545eca795&hb=e9b162a733491b74bd7d56edd9f1314f83a8c571
kb9vqfyou must have an incomplete checkout
raevynoh it has bugs reported i guess.. though nothing about using ldpreload
kb9vqfit's a temporary fix
kb9vqfit works by disabling the file picker
raevyn<nod> bummer.. i cant make a menu item for it that way
kb9vqfdon't worry, I consider this a major/blocker bug
raevynoh yay! i like pidgin WAY more than empathy
kb9vqfIt's not just pidgin
kb9vqfaudacity also crashes
kb9vqfand a handful of other GTK apps
raevynohh.. is it specific gtk apps?
slackware_usermaybe its due to sound system?
raevyni am finding an oddity that maybe is realted?
kb9vqfit is something with the file picker handling on certain GTK apps
kb9vqfprobably the Trinity file picker does not implement a certain GTK call
kb9vqfthe backtrace should show that quickly
kb9vqf(working on grabbing one now)
raevynOh.. then it probably isnt. Graphics on GTK apps seems to like.. disapear at times. buttons and menus items until hovered over
kb9vqfthat's probably the Qt3 integration
slackware_userbuilding qt3 first?
kb9vqfwhich is a separate module altogether
kb9vqfslackware_user: Yes
kb9vqfdo that from our GIT tree
slackware_userfails at clean...
MutantTurkeyslackware_user: our tree
kb9vqfthe main Qt3 branch is in the main GIT tree under main/dependencies/qt3
kb9vqfit contains a debian/ folder already
slackware_userok ill try
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raevynso will the new release still operate and look like ti does now?
MutantTurkeyraevyn: yes
raevynwhat will the new release have? O! will it have touch functionatlity?
kb9vqfif Xorg supports it....
kb9vqfbut if you want an actual "touch" OS use KDE4
kb9vqfit's designed for that
kb9vqfor Windows 8
kb9vqfTrinity is going to stay a mouse+keyboard driven DE
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kb9vqflots of good alternatives for a touch driven DE
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raevynah okay. so the way it looks and runs now will stay, but bugs and such willl be fixed?
slackware_userlibavahi-qt3-dev missing on sid
slackware_userwhere to get qt3-trinity for debian ?
kb9vqfhave to build libavahi-qt3-dev then from source...
slackware_userare there build scripts for these packages?
kb9vqfnot sure
kb9vqflook in debian for them
kb9vqfthat is, in the last debian release
slackware_userit seems that in sid that packsage was moved to repo at debian-ports.org
slackware_userand there is no package for both amd64 and x86
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calvinkb9vqf: I am trying out kde 4.6 for first time
calvinjust with irssi open it is using 600mb ram!
calvinits terribly slow.
kb9vqfoh nice~
calvinI will admit it looks very pretty, but its lagging oddly bad.
kb9vqflooks nice but is unusable for work
kb9vqfsounds familiar
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MutantTurkeyseems as if its indexing stuff in the backgroun alot.
MutantTurkeymy cpu is spliking randomly
kb9vqfyes, that's probably nepomuk
MutantTurkeywhatever that is.
kb9vqfsomething that cannot be turned off as an index is now somehow integral to a desktop environment (!???)
MutantTurkeyi never used indexing
kb9vqfonly indexer I used was Google Desktop Search
kb9vqfwhich, oddly enough, never ate my CPU or RAM!
kb9vqf(it is smart enough to know when a user is active)
MutantTurkeythis is terrible.
MutantTurkeyit has a nice feel but even the menus and desktop are unusable.
MutantTurkeyanyway I gotta split. just thought i'd say that.
kb9vqfnice feel?
kb9vqfI though feel was influenced by usability ;-0
* Xu_R notes that kde 4.7 was released today
* Xu_R also notes that kdePIM 4.6+ is still largely unusable
* Strangelv_ remembers integrated indexing and search. Ties up CPU and fills up all that pesky unused disk space?
kb9vqfNo no...as the KDE4 devs would say it "Utilizes unused system resources to fulfill a needed function"
* kb9vqf wouldn't use Nepomuk if it was the only indexer on the planet
kb9vqfFortuantely it isn't, and I think every alternative is better :-P
Xu_Rblehh... and I still can't believe that we need MySQL for a desktop.
kb9vqfwe don't
Xu_Rtell the kde4 devs that
kb9vqfAmarok uses it IIRC, but that is because people have music collections of thousands of tracks these days
Xu_Rwhich is a good reason
Xu_Rbut for the rest of the desktop... sqlite seems so much better to me...
kb9vqfAmarok can use SQLite too
kb9vqfin fact I guess it does so by default
kb9vqf:eek: tornado watch + warnings near my location
kb9vqfnot good
Xu_Rkb9vqf: stay safe
Xu_R(we have tornado watch and warnings here all the time. they all seem to hit west of my area xD)
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: wow.
MutantTurkey I just got back --- Still  hogging my cpu
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: wow.0~that is ridiculous.
MutantTurkeyXu_R: actually I don't use Amarok and I still have 15,000+ songs
MutantTurkeyits just called being organized :)
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MutantTurkey~/music/artist/album/ tada!
Xu_RMutantTurkey: nice XP
MutantTurkeyI do like plasma widgets :x
MutantTurkeythey are a bit bloaty for my likening, but i do find some useful.
Xu_RMutantTurkey: what distro are you trying kde4 on?
MutantTurkeyI just like the idea of embedding windows in my desktop - I have actually started implemenations of ideas for that
MutantTurkeyXu_R: arch.
MutantTurkeyI had mockups for embedding windows in the root window, enver got anywhere.
Xu_Rah. I've always used kde4 on suse - and for some reason I can run it smoothly on 512 mb, so it got to be less of a problem than I thought
MutantTurkeyI dunno... I have 530 ram usage right now.
MutantTurkeyand only irssi is open
MutantTurkeyon xfce its like 150mb
Xu_Rso bloated still...
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hazridikde4 isnt that bad as of kde 4.6, it's a lot faster than it used to be
hazridimaybe in 2-3 years it'll be usable :P
K`zanOPtomist :-)
hazridiI'd rather use it than gnome... shiver
MutantTurkeythis is terrible.
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K`zanI'd rather (and do) use gnome before kcrap4
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kb9vqfXu_R: Can you see if there is a patch to enable V4L2 support for Kopete?
kb9vqfin OpenSUSE, or similar distributions?
kb9vqfI may end up having to backport this http://websvn.kde.org/?view=revision&revision=738522
kb9vqfand this http://websvn.kde.org/?view=revision&revision=1226213
kb9vqfand a couple other minor ones
kb9vqfbut I don't want to if I don't have to ;-)
Xu_Rkb9vqf: nope, can't seem to find any D:
kb9vqfFeel up to some backporting?
Xu_Rlove to, but not atm - I've got to finish bills while my parents are out-of-town X_X
kb9vqfI'll probably have to do it then :-P
Xu_Rare those kde3 patches or kde4?
kb9vqfthose are KDE34 patches
kb9vqfto relatively low level code
kb9vqf(meaning there isn't much reliance on Qt0
* kb9vqf can't type
kb9vqf(meaning there isn't much reliance on Qt)
kb9vqfnevermind, there is still support for the V4L1 API available
kb9vqfWhy anyone needs V4L2 features for a webcam is beyond me!
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Z_Godkb9vqf: I haven't seen any installation instructions yet for a fresh install of Trinity on Natty, would that still be useful? I could provide them if so, it's almost the same as installing fresh on Maverick.
kb9vqfI'm actually building Natty packages now, so you might want to wait a bit and make sure your instructions work with the new packages
kb9vqfI can let you know when they are available for testing
Z_Godcool :)
Z_Godactually I just installed the maverick packages, but I also had to add the maverick universe and maverick-updates main repository to get all the dependencies satisfied
Z_GodI also wonder if you are considering a 3.5.12 release for ubuntu lucid
kb9vqfnot sure yet
Z_Godmost of the systems and people I support run Ubuntu Lucid with Trinity, so it would have a big impact for me ;)
kb9vqfI'll see how practical that is
Z_Godok, what kind of problems could be there?
Z_Godthe current systems are quite stable though
Z_Godespecially when people use only trinity (which is almost always)
kb9vqfbasically old/outdated libraries
kb9vqfhopefully that won't be too much of an issue
kb9vqfthen there is the fact that builds take a few days of computer cluster time
kb9vqfwhich uses a lot of $$$$ worth of power
kb9vqf(by bulids I mean new builds for a new distribution)
kb9vqfbasically a full rebuild
Z_Godok, an incremental upgrade doesn't make sense?
kb9vqfYou can't just do an incremental build
Z_GodI remember in the olden days some distros would only update kdelibs for example and then later some packages
kb9vqfTo add 3.5.12 or 3.5.13 to a distribution you need a full rebuild
Z_GodI'd have konqueror 2.2.1 on kde 2.2.2 for a while
kb9vqfit's not good practice
kb9vqfit can itroduce many subtle bugs
kb9vqfespecially if compiler versions have changed
kb9vqf(which they have under Ubuntu post-release)
kb9vqfeven a minor version bump can cause problems
kb9vqfas I said subtle and hard to trace problems :)
Z_GodI'd say that's a bug in the compiler though...
kb9vqfnot really
Z_Godbut yeah I can imagine you'd rather do a full recompile then
kb9vqfcompatibility is not guaranteed across compiler versions
kb9vqfnot to mention if kdelibs has one class change, the entire suite must be rebuilt
kb9vqfwe have a more agressive change policy on Trinity than on KDE3
kb9vqfto make sure that the desktop stays up to date
Z_GodI don't fully understand why it wouldn't be ABI compatible, but I know very little about this
kb9vqf(not for user visible elements, just for backend stuff)
kb9vqfIn 99% of cases there would be no problem
kb9vqfbut then I get bugs reported for the other 1%
kb9vqfand they are very hard to trace
kb9vqfBetter safe than sorry IMO
Z_Godyep, I understand
Z_Goddo you know what would be needed for the bluetooth support btw?
Z_GodI'm running blueman now in trinity which does a pretty much perfect job
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kb9vqf!seen MutantTurkey
tbottukb9vqf: MutantTurkey was last seen in #trinity-desktop 2 days, 20 hours, 22 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <MutantTurkey> this is terrible.
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kb9vqfAirplane crash in Aurora disabled Internet connection for around 8 hours Sunday (07/31/2011); all services are now back online
Xu_Rkb9vqf: wait, airplane crash? o_o so it went into the power and internet lines?
kb9vqfcomplete mess
Xu_Rmy god...
* Xu_R looks up the news
kb9vqfnot too many pictures available
kb9vqfbut one showed cables on the ground everywhere
* kb9vqf notes that his luck this year is just despicable
Xu_Roh, this has it: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-experimental-airplane-crashes-near-aurora-airport-pilot-killed-20110731,0,816843.story
kb9vqfthat's it
kb9vqfalthough the ISP metioned that the fiber lines were cut as well
kb9vqfin addition to the power
* kb9vqf wonders what's next...a hurricane?
Xu_RI would hope not that far north o_o
kb9vqfmaybe 5 inches of ice :)
Xu_Rmore likely XD
kb9vqfany progress on fixing bugs?
kb9vqfthere are a number of gcc4.6 fixes in SVN now, so you shouldn't have very many build problems
Xu_RI downloaded another copy of maverick
Xu_Rso i'm going to re-put trinity back on there
Xu_Rsince natty builds aren't finished yet
Xu_RI also started re-doing the spec files for opensuse
Xu_R(haven't pushed them to git yet(
Xu_Rman, they really overpatched kde 3.5.10 o_o
kb9vqfsame with Qt3
kb9vqfboth were long overdue for a new release
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: there's no sudo-trinity for maverick?
Xu_R(ps - in nightly builds)
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Pikii see tbottu is a little power hungry :-)
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destroyfxFor the Etherpad, it's admin validation for the registration?
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kb9vqfdestroyfx: Did you attempt to register?
destroyfxyes, today
kb9vqfOK, I will approve the registration
kb9vqfwe have to be careful of spammers
destroyfxah, ok :)
kb9vqfemail sent
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mutantturkeykb9vqf: did you import the qt3 patch you reported as a bug in the tracker?
kb9vqfbug number?
mutantturkeybug 484
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=484 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Qt3 needs patching to build under ARM
* kb9vqf goes to check
kb9vqfmutantturkey: Yes
mutantturkeyokay Ill mark as fixed
Xu_Rkb9vqf: question - do you have a working sudo-trinity for maverick in nightly builds?
kb9vqfdid you check the build dependencies PPA?
Xu_RI only have a sudo-kde3
kb9vqfohh...oops :)
kb9vqfI'll correct that as soon as I can
kb9vqfthe build farm's a bit busy right now chewing on koffice
Xu_Rok :P I can't install my nightly build on maverick until I have that XP
Xu_Rewww, koffice
mutantturkeyLibreOffice just released 3.4.2
kb9vqfodd; it let me install kdelbs/kdebase without it
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I know... it's all installable w/o sudo-trinity >_>
Xu_Ronly ran into that when I tried to install kdpkg-trinity, which wants sudo-trinity
kb9vqfyes, that makes sense
kb9vqfpoke me tomorrow about it :)
kb9vqftoo busy today
kb9vqfI can't believe how many "programmers" thought code was OK that now throws this
kb9vqferror:   for a function-style cast, remove the redundant '::QPen'
mutantturkeykb9vqf: low quality control, thats how they release so fast.
kb9vqfit would never occur to me to write code like this TQString::TQString("Hi!")
kb9vqfoh well
mutantturkeyand release cylces are speeding up.
kb9vqfso that's the excuse for Windows 8? :-)
mutantturkeyKDE3 was in functionality for quite a while. KDE4 is already at 4.8... 5 is in planning stages
kb9vqfand it's still a bloated unusable pile of garbage
mutantturkeyor at least qt5 is in planning by nokia
mutantturkeyyeah basically.
mutantturkeyhonestly, I think windows is doing some good with 8.
mutantturkeyIt is at least standardizing and forcing them to use open technologies
Xu_Rhave you seen Meego?
mutantturkeybecause then all windows apps will run on all platforms
kb9vqfinferior tech nonetheless
kb9vqfeven if it is open
mutantturkeykb9vqf: obviously. but either way  Idon't use windows
Xu_Rpeople say everything is good if it's open-source. it's not good if it's open-source + crap :P
mutantturkeyXu_R: but the open source model is superioir
mutantturkeyto the closed source
mutantturkeyin most cases.
kb9vqfKDE4 is proving you wrong
Xu_Rtrue - but the quality of the software is something to think about XD
mutantturkeykb9vqf: now imagine if KDE4 was closed source. it would be 50x worse
kb9vqfyes, I know, I know
kb9vqfit seems that the worst traits of both models are on display lately
Xu_RI wish Nokia didn't scrap Meego for Windows Phone... >_>
kb9vqfI know
Xu_Rbecause people hate Windows Phone but love Meego
Xu_Rand yet it's dead on arrival to stores
mutantturkeyI like the windows phone...
mutantturkeyThe interface is actually clean and intuitive.
mutantturkeycompared to apple and android
mutantturkeyI really need a clean interface, and a really well integrated one (which is one thing i hate about linux...)
kb9vqfevil thought...M$ probably thinks that the desktop is disappearing and they want to write their apps once and have them work on both the software-as-a-service Web stuff and their "desktop OS"
kb9vqfhence the emphasis on web technologies
Xu_Rdesktop OS... there's no way I'm moving to windows 8
* kb9vqf will never EVER rent space on other people's mainframes
kb9vqftoo great a liklihood the other party makes your vital data inacecssable at some point
mutantturkeyi dont trust the cloud.
kb9vqfs/mainframes/software-as-a-service cloud/g ;)
kb9vqfthis is all old tech
kb9vqfold ideas
kb9vqfback on topic? ;-)
Xu_Rmaybe ;P
mutantturkeyback on topic? I am really annoyed with the fact that I can't get kde3 working and I don't have time to work on it. I am debating about installing debian in a chroot just to work with it
kb9vqfXu_R: How are your spec files coming
kb9vqfmutantturkey: Which distribution do you use?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: working on it, may run builds locally soon, but not right this second. still a mess xP
mutantturkeyI don't want to compromise either way.
mutantturkeyi want arch + trinity. :P
mutantturkeywish david was still around. He actually understands building on arch
kb9vqftry the mailing list
kb9vqfsometimes people take breaks
kb9vqfit's healthy to do so :)
mutantturkeygood thinking
mutantturkeyI need to take a good stab at it.
mutantturkeyI am hoping a night this week I can sit down with a few hours and work
destroyfxI'm thinking about making Trinity ebuild for Funtoo and Gentoo
mutantturkeydestroyfx: that would be sweet
Xu_Rsamelian was working on that with kde-sunset, I think?
mutantturkeywe have a trinity packaging repo
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mutantturkeydestroyfx: git clone http://scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging if you are intrested
mutantturkeyI don't think we have any for gentoo now. so someone working on it would be cool
destroyfxwhat tde-packaging?
mutantturkeyit's where we keep all our build scripts for distros
kb9vqfit contains all distribution-specific packaging files, ready to be copied into the vanilla Trinity source
destroyfxFor kde-sunset, I hear that the ebuild was planed but are actually canceled. Only KDE 3.5.10 are present
kb9vqfyes, they suggested using a new ebuild
destroyfxah, ok :p I will chack that this evening
destroyfxI just made some patch for KDE 3.5.10 in kde-submit... Because of some ::Stupid(error) preventing some packages to compile in GCC 4.5
kb9vqfthere are a number of gcc4.5/gcc4.6 fixes in the Trinity SVN
destroyfxyeah, I read that. But I will need to make a ton of ebuilds first prior to use
kb9vqfjust wanted to let you know they were there
jumpshipIs anyone using Debian Squeeze with trinity and have KDE4 installed to use some of the KDE4 programs?
kb9vqfI have some experience with KDE4 installed alongside Trinity under Ubuntu
jumpshipI don't wanna break trinity, so I've been trying to hold off with some programs, is the stable pkgs of trinity pretty safe with KDE4 alongside?
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mutantturkeykb9vqf: I see a commit revision (r1242480) saying that everything has been completely moved to .trinity and /etc/trinity?
kb9vqfthe old kde3 prefix is now dropped
kb9vqfotherwise it's just too confusing
kb9vqfdepending on which distribution you use it could be ~/.kde, ~/.kde3, or ~/.trinity
kb9vqfa simple 'mv ~/.kde3 ~/.trinity' will work
kb9vqfI will probably have to detect the .kde3 directory for a while still
kb9vqfin startkde
kb9vqfbut all new installs will put the profile in ~/.trinity
mutantturkeymaybe a migration script
mutantturkeywhen 3.5.13 is released
mutantturkeymight be easier to leave it up to users
mutantturkeyso what about bugs like 459?
kb9vqfTrinity still obeys KDEHOME
kb9vqfbug 459?
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=459 blocker, P1, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Detecting $KDEHOME to avoid conflicts with KDE3 and KDE4
mutantturkeydoes KDE4 use $KDEHOME also?
kb9vqfI thought that bug was fixed
mutantturkeyIt might be, I was just browsing
kb9vqfstartkde should search in this order: ~/.trinity, ~/.kde3, ~/.kde
kb9vqfand should only create ~/.trinity
mutantturkeyso what about this situation:
kb9vqfin fact, IMHO, it shouldn't even look for ~/.kde
mutantturkeysomeone has kde4 previously, so .kde is there , then they install trinity, then what?
kb9vqfsee above :)
mutantturkeybut they don't have .trinity on first run.
kb9vqfstartkde should search in this order: ~/.trinity, ~/.kde3
kb9vqfand ignore ~/.kde
kb9vqfif ~/.trinity and ~/.kde3 don't exist then it should create ~/.trinity
mutantturkeythat sounds valid
mutantturkeyeventually.. very distant future drop .kde3
kb9vqfbut at this point NEVER EVER create a ~/.kde3 directory :)
kb9vqfI haven't looked in startkde recently
kb9vqfso I don't know how much of that logic is already in place
kb9vqfI know some of it is
kb9vqfbut not all of it
mutantturkeyshould I mark that bug with anything?
kb9vqfit must block KDE 3.5.13
kb9vqfand you might want to append the logic described above
kb9vqfregarding searching
kb9vqfOh, this is fun: on Natty, how do you like this library path location: /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libdbus-1.so
kb9vqfick ick ick
mutantturkeythats terrible
mutantturkeyubuntu is moving farther away from linux every release.
mutantturkeyand is completely devoid of the unix philosophy
kb9vqfI have no idea
kb9vqfAll I can say is YUCK
kb9vqfthat's even worse than the lib/ vs lib64/ stuff
kb9vqffortunately it only broke k9copy
kb9vqfand I think I fixed that
mutantturkeyi know.
mutantturkeywell /lib32/ i am okay with.
mutantturkeybecause Arch has a really simple way to setup 32bit on 64bit machines
kb9vqfyes, but there should still be a symlink from /lib to /lib32 then
kb9vqfor /lib64 depending on the machine architecture
mutantturkeyit's just an extra repo, and that's it.
mutantturkeykb9vqf: yep
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mutantturkeykb9vqf: funny enough he just posted on the arch ml about trinity
mutantturkeyDavid that is
kb9vqfonly good things I hope? ;-)
mutantturkeyjust some package error conflict, easily resolved
mutantturkeyi took it as an opportunity to email him
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mutantturkeykb9vqf: heading out. I am looking at some bugs tonight. might be on later.
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* Strangelv__ wonders if someone could get away with filing a bug report for /lib/i386-linux-gnu/
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destroyfxit's okay if I repackage all the file in .bz2 format and if I put the correct directory name. exemple, when I unpack kdelibs-3.5.12.tar.gz, I must get the kdelibs-3.5.12 folder instead of a plain kdelibs folder
destroyfxI can mirror them too (all your packages plus those I will make)
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raevynHai :) Im using the shell to start Pidgin but everytime I close it, Pidgin closes as well. Is there some way to like, start it and then let me  close the shell without losing pidgin?
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Space_ManI think you can add && after pidgin
Space_Manpidgin &&
kb9vqfpidgin &
kb9vqfalso, there is a fix in SVN for this...if you are feeling adventurous you can install the nightly builds for Maverick or Natty....
raevynthank you!
raevynoh i might.. i was going to ask, when i loaded kde 3 on my machine, i already loaded kde 4 and now, my menu is goofy. is there a way to reset my menu?
kb9vqfmenu is goofy?
kb9vqfhow so?
kb9vqfscreenshots may help here :)
raevynokay well, if i log in as another user, the menu will show what app is kde 3 and kde 4, such as the control panel. but in mine it doesnt so some items start with the kde4 interface rather than 3
raevynoh okay.. i will try to get screenshots tonight for you :)
raevynIm at work right now so I can chat but not really do anything too intensive
raevynHow would i install the build? Im not super savvy in linux yet so I used your instructions to get it on Ubuntu 10.10.
* Xu_R nudges at kb9vqf for missing sudo-trinity in the nightlys
kb9vqfXu_R: It was uploaded last night to the nightly build dependencies
Xu_Rok - checking now
kb9vqfraevyn: First I would back up your machine ;-)
kb9vqfThen you can swap out the nightly build repository deb and deb-src lines in your /etc/apt/sources.list file
kb9vqfhmmm...on second thought, there are missing metapackages in that repository ATM
kb9vqfso you can't really upgrade
raevyn:) always good practice.
raevynoh.. well then.. i guess i will wait :P
kb9vqfnew installs are OK
kb9vqfupgrades need metapackages that are not yet uploaded
* kb9vqf forgot about that since he installed Trinity from scratch on his development machines
* Xu_R is about to do the kde3 -> trinity deadly upgrade from stable -> nightly XD
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I don't see sudo-trinity still D:
raevynis that disc that is made with trinity Ubuntu, just no gnome? I would like to have the hardware checking and easy software installation of ubuntu but use TDE is all
Xu_Rstrange. I see it right on mirror.tokra.lv...
Xu_Rwell... that's strange.
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kb9vqfXu_R: Mirrors may not have synced yet
kb9vqfthey are on a 24 hour cycle
kb9vqfso I would wait until tomorrow
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I just downloaded sudo-trinity from the mirror, it's just not in the repo meta yet...
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kb9vqfbe careful...some of those pacakges are for Debian....
Xu_Rah, true.
* Xu_R forgot that you built for debian way back before .-."
kb9vqfand will build for Debian again...
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: what's up man
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Xu_Rhey MutantTurkey
Xu_Rah, damnit. lost him by a few minutes
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I see a sudo-trinity for maverick! :D
kb9vqfah, good :)
Xu_Rlooks like the repo meta is also refreshd
kb9vqfso now I should see some bugfixes soon? ;-)
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Xu_R|ZNCkb9vqf: before I head out for tennis: I see a python-dcop and python-kde3 fof kde3, but not for trinity...
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kb9vqfnot surprised...those packages are a mess and it may take some time before I build them
Xu_Rah, ok
kb9vqfthey are also not needed for 99% of Trinity apps
* kb9vqf is NOT a Python guru and is seriously considering dropping them from the Ubuntu builds if they don't work out of the box
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Xu_Rback from tennis - downpour started as soon as I got to the courts >_>
Xu_Rkb9vqf: a lot of packages are missing from the mirrors o_o
kb9vqflike what?
Xu_Rkdm, ksplash, kdebase, etc
Xu_Rthey're not on mirror.tokra.lv or associated >_> so apt-get is failing to download them D:
kb9vqfah, ok
kb9vqfevery night my ISP has been severing the connection
Xu_Rah... that's probably why...
kb9vqfso it is very probable that the files were not transferred yet
Xu_Rquite a few: http://slexy.org/view/s20dcKvDfP
kb9vqfon the plus side the weather should be quiet for a while here, which should aid in keeping the connection up
Xu_Rthat's good :D
kb9vqfI'm not going to do anything about it (because I can't)
kb9vqfbut if you are still having problems in a day or two please let me know\
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Xu_Rblehh... I had to install xfce4 to remove kde3 and install trinity... >_>
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Xu_Rand kdm seems to be stalling after logout... and rejecting upstart restart/stop/start/etc requests....
Xu_R(fking upstart... it's not even maintained anymore)
Xu_Rkdm session menu shows KDE3 instead of trinity...
Xu_Rlooks like kdesudo for trinity isn't right...
Xu_Rkdm's theme isn't made properly...
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: I got the nightly installed
Xu_Rand am already having difficulties... :-\
Xu_Rkb9vqf: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/8
kb9vqfXu_R: Not surprised; this is not release quality software yet!
kb9vqfin particular I know that the default themes are not available
kb9vqfthey have not been uploaded yet
Xu_Rfigured that most of this was expected :P
kb9vqfinstall from a clean Maverick/Natty installation ONLY
kb9vqfmetapackages will be available to migrate from the -kde3 package suffix as the release date nears
kb9vqfbut not yet :)
Xu_Rkb9vqf: bit too late, I did the upgrade... :-\
kb9vqfwell, now I don't know where your problems are coming from :-\
kb9vqfcould be the code, could be old -kde3 packages
kb9vqfyou will have to manually purge all -kde3 packages
Xu_Roh, I already purged all the -kde3 packages
kb9vqfthe kdesudo thing sounds irritating
Xu_Rit is D:
kb9vqfknetworkmanager sounds like a kde3/trinity change
kb9vqfthat is, it broke in the move from .kde3 and /etc/kde3 to .trinity and //etc/trinity
kb9vqfwhy is networkmanager upstream missing VPN support???
Xu_Rit probably is... but mind you, for some reason the -trinity packages are still using my .kde3 settings
Xu_Rno, i'm saying knetworkmanager is not working with the VPN support
Xu_R(did I mistype that? O_O)
Xu_Rlemme fix that
kb9vqfanything else to add to the list of bad news?
Xu_Rnot really, which is a good thing. i'm firing up a clean install to see if I get the same stuff
kb9vqfalso any work that you can do to track down the cause of those problems is greatly appreciated :)
kb9vqfsounds good
kb9vqfXu_R: Profile directory name (~/.trinity) fixes are in SVN revision 1244723.
kb9vqfyou can directly patcth the /opt/trinity/bin/startkde file if you don't want to wait for the nightly builds
kb9vqflet me know if it works properly please :)
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: Xu_R: running a chroot of debian in my arch
MutantTurkeygoing okay so far
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Xu_Roh grrr.... I just realized
Xu_Rthere's absolutely no polkit dialog when using trinity
Xu_Rso apps that depend on polkit
Xu_Rjust... fail.
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NecrosporusWhat's about trinity for Slackware 13.37?
kb9vqfask on the trinity-devel mailing list
kb9vqfI don't handle Slackware
kb9vqfbut the person who does is on the list
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NecrosporusWell, so I will probably have to compile it myself. I doubt, however, if it worth it
NecrosporusXfce works
NecrosporusAnd I'm not sure, if KDE4 is still not as good as 3.5
NecrosporusThere was a security bugs in Konqueror, is it fixed in Trinity?
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Strangelv__"Have the bug reports been enterede into TDE's bug tracker?
NecrosporusI do not know, I just read, there was a vulnerability of SSL certificate checking if it contain null symbols
NecrosporusIt was discovered after release of 3.5.10, if I remember it correctly
TokRaIMHO, KDE4 is good enough except Plasma and its sick addiction to mysql based akonadi
* TokRa uses Gnome2 as DE, KDE3.Kmail and KDE3.Kate for mails and code editing, KDE4.Konqueror as file manager
TokRaGnome is not customisable enough :(
kb9vqfwe have many CVE updates from after 3.5.10 in our codebase
kb9vqfas long as it was patched on at least one major distro (such as RedHat) we likely have the patches already in place
kb9vqfa link to the CVE or upstream bug always helps ;-)
kb9vqfalso, if xfce is powerful enough for you, stick with it
kb9vqfTrinity is here for those who find xfce too limiting
kb9vqfKDE4 too bloated
kb9vqfand Gnome 3 too limited
kb9vqfthat should be 'and Gnome 3 too childish'
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NecrosporusWell, I seem to use mostly terminal, firefox and some games
NecrosporusWhat' s about Gnome 2 and Unity?
NecrosporusI have used KDE 3.5.9 for a year, because of Slackware 12.1, however, times changed, I bought a netbook, and installed ubuntu 10.04 on it
NecrosporusSo, I stick mostly with gnome2, at first I found it too limited of configuration, but adapted somehow later
TokRaUnity is especially designed for kids and mentally challenged adults
TokRacompletely unusable
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NecrosporusDoes Gnome3 differ much?
NecrosporusI have tried it from livecd, haven't found many difference
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TokRaIt does
NecrosporusWhat's the main difference, beside, the side panel is visible only in menu mode?
aalecsgnome sucks. the only thing good in gnome is gdm
Revan199gedit? file-roller?
aalecsxarchiver, mucommander, xfburn..
Revan199gedit not a FM
Revan199it is a text editor
aalecsgeany then
aalecsi know what gedit is
Revan199gedit is better for text than Geany, of course
aalecsuh, that is ok, but we also have qtparted
Revan199it is a really good text editor
aalecsRevan199: if you tweak geany, it has a lot of good stuff
Revan199aalecs: I don't need an IDE then I edit a plain text
aalecsRevan199: leafpad then.
Revan199and I don't need to not use gedit
Revan199aalecs: gedit better %)
Space_Mansadly qtparted is not available for kubuntu 9.10
aalecsSpace_Man: pack it then. build your own deb
aalecsRevan199: mousepad then :D
Revan199aalecs: ?
Space_Manhopefully in the next day or two I will be updating to something a bit newer
aalecssincerily, the best de are xfce and kde
aalecsgnome is a sucko..
aalecsRevan199: mousepad is the text editor in xfce
Revan199aalecs: but that don't mean that every program in GNOME sucks?
aalecsnope, not all programs. but as a de gnome sucks :D and i just hate the fact that all the dumbasses started using linux, and distros like fedora...
aalecswhere has lfs gone
aalecsdebian netinstall.. slack.. where
Revan199my debootstrap'd ubuntu don't have DE
aalecscool. why did u choose ubuntu and not debian ?
Revan199aalecs: I'm switched FROM debian to ubuntu :-D
aalecsok, but why ?
aalecsi'm on altlinux here
aalecsbut also use debian and centos
Revan199ALTLinux? why not Agilia?
Revan199AgiliaLinux is a nice distro =)
Revan199but I don't think that ALT is nice too
aalecswell, i'm on alt since 2004
aalecsbetter said, i`m on alt since it was a mdk fork
Revan199well, my first distro is... Debian
aalecsmy first was rh 6.0
aalecsand after that slack, mdk and a lot others
aalecsbut mainly alt now
aalecsand debian/others as virtual stuff, vbox, xen, openvz
Revan199when I tried ALT I thought that it is a big pack of crap
aalecswhy ?
Revan199aalecs: whell... I don't remember why (my memory... %))
aalecswell, i don't think it's crap
Revan199I remember that updating from 4 to 5 removed all files
aalecsure joking :))
Revan199xarchiver not better than file-roller %)
Revan199aalecs: no
Revan199I don't
aalecsfile-roller is good. xarchiver is ok.
aalecspeazip works too.
Revan199peazip just works, but it doesn't work good
TokRaLinus Torvalds to fork Gnome2: https://plus.google.com/106327083461132854143/posts/SbnL3KaVRtM
Revan199TokRa: he is funny yea
TokRaTimothy has forked KDE3, so why Linus couldn't do the same thing with Gnome2? :D
Revan199TokRa: he don't know how to use google but wrote a post in plus.google.com
* TokRa doesn't use social networks at all
Revan199because if he can use google he can googled http://matsusoft.com.ar/redmine/projects/mate
aalecseh. gnome sucks. and qmail sucks too.
Revan199aalecs: who is qmail?
aalecsgoogle it
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NecrosporusGedit is not good
Necrosporuskwrite is much better
TokRakate is godlike anyway
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kb9vqfequipment swap in progress...service should be restored by 3:30PM CDT
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: Just realized - there's no native polkit dialog for trinity...
Xu_Rso if I launched an application that needed polkit, it would fail because of no native dialog D:
Xu_Rpolkit = PolicyKit
Xu_R(example - Ubuntu Software Center)
kb9vqfhmmm...for now I would just install some other policykit dialog
kb9vqfe.g. the gnome one
kb9vqfsince Trinity doesn't use policykit at all
Xu_RI have the GNOME one, however polkit refuses to invoke it on Trinity
Xu_RI put XFCE on the same VM to see - polkit works there, so I'm not sure why polkit is refusing
kb9vqfdo you get any console messages?
* kb9vqf notes that the Qt3 version of a policykit dialog is here https://gitorious.org/policykit-kde
kb9vqfQt4 rather
Xu_Rconsole messages:
Xu_Rdamnit, i didn't install vbox additions
Xu_Rgoing to have to type it up
Xu_Rsoftwarecenter.backend - WARNING - _on_trans_error: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit.Error.Failed: ('system-bus-name', {'name':  ':1.32'}): org.debian.apt.install-or-remove-packages
* kb9vqf is guessing that the daemon that monitors DBUS doesn't start automaticallly under Trinity
kb9vqfthat is a stupid design IMHO
Xu_Rpolkit is stupid because not everyone uses it >_> so in the end, it's  another flaw
kb9vqflet's see...we'll just have YET ANOTHER BACKGROUND PROCESS running 24/7 in case someone wants to...launch with administrative privileges???
Xu_Rit now uses polkit
Xu_Rand guess what? it just fails silently (not even console messages)
kb9vqfsee if you can find the process under XFCE
* kb9vqf needs to restart something; be back in a few minutes
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: oh, good lord. there's policykit-1-gnome and polkit-kde-1 that handle the dialogs
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kb9vqfok, I'm back
Xu_Rkb9vqf: oh, good lord. there's policykit-1-gnome and polkit-kde-1 that handle the dialogs... According to the description: 'PolicyKit-gnome provies a D-Bus session bus service that is used to bring up authentication dialogs used for obtaining privileges.'
kb9vqfall services should be up
kb9vqfisn't it stupid?
kb9vqfwhat in the world was wrong with sudo?
Xu_Rnothing, which makes this even more crazy
kb9vqfUbuntu only?
Xu_Rbecause sudo can do the same exact thing with fine-grained privileges
arkb9vqf: nothing, except it's not flexible
Xu_Ruhh... probably not just Ubuntu
kb9vqfso polkit is actually better?
Xu_Rdepends how you look at it
* kb9vqf doesn't like things running in the background
Xu_RI see polkit and sudo the same in the end, just polkit is fancier -_-"
arkb9vqf: you either give a user "user ALL=(ALL) ALL" or end up with dozens of sudoers rules
kb9vqfdoes polkit have a configuration GUI?
Xu_Rdebian, fedora, and probably some other distributions will run into these polkit problems, AFAIK because they use tools with polkit now
Xu_Ruhhh... polkit gui? used to be, I dunno now
arand afair the point of polkit was that only a part of an app could get elevated privileges, which isn't the case with sudo
Xu_Rar: makes me wonder what happened with gksu-polkit development
kb9vqfpart of an app?
kb9vqfnow that seems just ridiculous to me
Xu_Rkb9vqf: it's like running synaptic not as root
kb9vqfnow we have who knows how many dangling security holes resulting from slicing off part of an app
Xu_Rbut then when you hit apply it asks for root permissions to do just that
kb9vqfso it is more of a temporal elevation?
kb9vqfthat is the entire app gets root access for a small amount of time
kb9vqfthat makes more sense
kb9vqfpersonally I say use some other GUI frontend to polkit
kb9vqfthere is no need to have the Trinity widget styles
kb9vqffor a stupid password box :)
Xu_RxD except that stupid password box won't launch under trinity
kb9vqfof course
kb9vqfthe question is why
kb9vqfand whose problem is it?
kb9vqfor is polkit detecting KDE3 and not launching?
Xu_RI think polkit is detecting KDE3 and not launching...
kb9vqfthen that's not our problem
kb9vqfnext question: can it be fooled into thinking it is running under Gnome/XFCE/etc
Xu_RI don't know...
kb9vqffeel like figuring that out for me? :)
* Xu_R goes to google
kb9vqfthe odd thing is that it worked under Maverick
kb9vqfI got the ugly Gnome popup when I lauched Synaptic
Xu_RSynaptic doesn't use polkit
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Xu_Rhey, look what I found! /usr/libexec/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1
Dexter_FI need kaffeine-kde3 only on one box that does not have/need trinity and runs debian wheezy - I guess there are no precompiled packages for that?
Xu_Rfor wheezy? not right now D:
Xu_Rkb9vqf: the auth agent for gnome isn't running under trinity
kb9vqfand if you manually start it do things work?
Xu_Rtrying to find the binary to start it
Xu_Rubuntu moved things around
Xu_Rok, so it's only set to start in gnome...
Xu_R(sorry for the capitals)
Xu_Rlemme test this out...
Xu_Rit works
Xu_Rso, yea...
Xu_Ryou need another background process to display the dialogs >_>
Xu_Rthe binary controlling this: '/usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1
kb9vqfwell, that is definitely a problem
kb9vqfI hate that design
kb9vqfbut I guess I have to live with it for now
kb9vqfso we'll need a /ETC/XDG/AUTOSTART/POLKIT-TRINITY-AUTHENTICATION-AGENT-1.DESKTOP with nearly identical contents that depends on the package including /ETC/XDG/AUTOSTART/POLKIT-GNOME-AUTHENTICATION-AGENT-1.DESKTOP
Xu_Rand they need to have OnlyShowIn=TDE; or something...
kb9vqfthats the "nearly identical contents" mentioned above ;-)
kb9vqf<rant>Linux is becoming more like the bad part of Windows merged with the bad UI of UNIX and the childish UI of Mac all rolled into one</rant>
Xu_Rbut is the 'TDE' part recognizable?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: +1
kb9vqfhmmm...it might be recognizable, not sure
kb9vqfcan you try it?
kb9vqfif it doesn't launch then try OnlyShowIn=KDE
Xu_Rlet's seee...
Xu_Rnope, TDE doesn't work
Xu_RKDE doesn't work either...
Xu_Rkb9vqf: is Trinity reading /etc/xdg/autostart?
kb9vqfit *should*
kb9vqftry it without the OnlyShowIn just for fun
kb9vqfbarring that, you could try creating an entry in /opt/trinity/etc/xdg/autostart/
Xu_Rwithout the OnlyShowIn it works
kb9vqfif that works then something old snuck through
Xu_Rdum dum dum.
Xu_Rno, KDE3 doesn't work
* kb9vqf goes to look at kdebase
Xu_Rsomething slipped through... >_>"
kb9vqfWell it is supposed to be OnlyShowIn=KDE;
kb9vqfXu_R: Is there a NotShowIn field?
Xu_Rhmm... interesting, because adept notifier is also in /etc/xdg/autostart and it has OnlyShowIn=KDE;
Xu_RI'm going to try again with KDE
kb9vqfsomething must be confusing it
Xu_Rhey, this time it works....
Xu_Rbrb, dinner...
kb9vqfXu_R: X-TDE-Autostart* support is now in SVN revision 1245190.
kb9vqfX-TDE-Autostart* is preferred, but it will fall back to X-KDE-Autostart* if needed
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kb9vqfXu_R: KDM session name moved from KDE3 to TDE in SVN revision 1245194.
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: :D
Xu_Rkb9vqf: Question: Is it possible for the kickoff menu icon to just be a Trinity logo icon?
Xu_R(and we have to get rid of that embedded image stuff, that's uglyyy)
kb9vqfI'm not going to fight with it personally as I never use Kickoff
kb9vqfif you want to try to fix it send me a patch :)
Xu_Reek - ok, I'll see what I cando
Xu_Rkb9vqf: on the About Trinity dialog, the name is still "About KDE"
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kb9vqfXu_R: That was fixed about an hour ago
Xu_Roh, ok :P
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: can I close bug 459? because you've moved everything to .trinity already
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=459 blocker, P1, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Detecting $KDEHOME to avoid conflicts with KDE3 and KDE4
kb9vqfIt *should* be fixed
kb9vqfbut I would verify it before closing that bug!!
MutantTurkeydid you se the libpython2.6 bug?
Xu_Rthe libpython2.6 bug I had also before - but I would call that bad ubuntu packaging
Xu_Rand not trinity's problem...
Xu_Rkb9vqf: patched startkde...
Xu_Rand it works!
Xu_Rmy .kde3 moved to .trinity
Xu_Rand I still have all my settings
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: I can confirm.
Xu_Rand looks like the rest of the bug has already been done
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kb9vqfgo ahead and close it then
Xu_Rclosed already :P
Xu_Rhm, breaking news just popped up..
Xu_R"Rating agency Standard & Poor's says it has downgraded the U.S. credit rating to AA+ from its top rank of AAA. "
Xu_Roh, who didn't see that coming.. .>_>
kb9vqfand not good :-P
Xu_Rnope :P
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KingSphinxSo the channel does exist... :P
KingSphinxSorry, actually just thought I'd drop by this channel to give a few words of praise, for lack of a better term, to this project for having the guts to maintain the former incarnation of KDE. Bravo!
KingSphinxTo be honest, I never used KDE until... 4.2, I think? I have no hard feelings against the Plasma Desktop, but 3.x just feels... right, you know? Anyhoo, if I'm bothering anyone, sorry...
kb9vqfno, not bothering us at all :)
kb9vqfwe like it when users stop by to tell us they like what we are doing
kb9vqfand in your case especially we can point to someone who had no predjudice against KDE4 (since KDE4 was your first experience with KDE), which means that the KDE3 style is still superior for some percentage of new Linux users :)
kb9vqfthanks for going out of your way to let us know you like the project!
KingSphinxI really don't understand why they felt the need to drop Kicker entirely, it was ported to Qt4 and everything, but droppped in alpha IIRC. It would've been nice for them to have left it as an optional component or something. :/
KingSphinxHowever, Trinity's indirectly responsible for my migration to Fedora (broke Compiz and my display driver with it)
kb9vqfI don't think it was fully ported
kb9vqfQt4 was too limited to handle the "old" Kicker internals
KingSphinxIt was fine until I tried to experiment with Compiz though, so I harbor no ill will towards it.
kb9vqfuse fusion-icon
kb9vqfand Ubuntu itself is....ehmm...unstable when it comes to Compiz
kb9vqfregardless of the DE you use
kb9vqfthe only time I have been able to keep Compiz on is with an older Intel card on an IBM laptop
KingSphinxSeems Intel hardware is the most reliable when it comes to just about anything Linux-related...
* KingSphinx has a Broadcom wireless chip that Ubuntu doesn't support out-of-box
KingSphinxThat's actually not a good thing for me, since I kind of have to jump through hoops to get it running in *buntu, and sadly, if I wanted to install Trinity again (made a CD so I can revisit it), I don't think I could get my wireless working even with the instructions provided by the Ubuntu wiki because I'm not sure if Trinity provides the tools required. Bleh, that was a mouthful.
KingSphinxSpecifically, these instructions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
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arKingSphinx: the only reliable thing about intel, where drivers do actually matter, are network cards
arKingSphinx: i've seen enough rendering issues/artifacts on my laptop, which has intel graphics
arXu_R: "AA+"? i've heard something about "D"
* kb9vqf thinks ar was looking trough a time vortex into a few years from now
arno, not really: http://www.goldmadesimple.com/gold-made-simple-cuts-usa-rating-from-aaa-to-d
arstill, imo all of those "rating agencies" are just a scam
ar(and no, i don't live in the usa)
KingSphinxI really think the rating decrease seems kinda overdue... I mean, really? A nation that's untold trillions in debt and it has perfect credit?
* kb9vqf agrees with KingSphinx
KingSphinxoh yeah! A question I've been meaning to ask: with the planned ports to RPM-based systems, will each distro retain its own artwork/theme or will it just be the "generic" KDE 3 look?
kb9vqfdebt to GDP ratio is just too high
kb9vqfXu_R might know
kb9vqfit depends on whether or not the distro maintainer(s) will pull in the original KDE3.5 theming from the distribution or not
kb9vqfI did with Ubuntu, but then again there have been several cycles since then, so the current artwork looks nothing like the original artwork ;-)
kb9vqf*release cycles
KingSphinxI think Fedora still has the Qt3 port of Bluecurve in its repos, and lol, I've noticed.
KingSphinxHardy looked excellent, but it seems from 8.10 onward, Kubuntu just opted to use the "generic" themeing.
kb9vqfhmmm...8.10 sounds like the point at which my releases started
kb9vqfyou must not have had the theming packages installed
kb9vqffor reference, here's how the Ubuntu releases look now: http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/cdimages/
KingSphinxInteresting... Enterprise Edition seems to vaguely resemble Windows XP (possibly on purpose?)
KingSphinxDesktop Edition seems to pretty much look like Hardy with a new wallpaper. Not a bad thing though, it looks great IMO.
KingSphinxJust what does Enterprise have that Desktop lacks? Additional apps/drivers?
kb9vqfloads of apps
kb9vqfmore drivers
kb9vqfand a cleaner, tighter widget style and theme
kb9vqfmore along the lines of what you expect in a corporate environment
arpaypal :/
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Xu_Rar: LOL
Xu_Rkb9vqf: yes, distros will pull in KDE theming from the distribution D:
Xu_Rand I dropped Fedora because they strictly forbid anything installed in /opt, which is a pain because then I have to conflict anything KDE4
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raevynHello! So I havebeen playing with Trinity DVD today and realized its Ubuntu 10.10, just no GNOME desktop. Is that accurate?
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KingSphinxWhat's all this about Fedora forbidding anything installed in /opt?
raevynhello. so i just compared my kde3 installation on ubuntu to the installation that is one the tde enterprise dvd.. and i am missing a huge number of files.
raevyncould this have been caused by installing kde4 first?
KingSphinxWell yeah, I'd believe the cause may actually just be that the Enterprise DVD has a lot of extra features, whereas installing via repo will just give the standard CD experience.
raevynohhhhh... <sighs> is there a way to remedy that? to get the entire KDE software set via repo?
KingSphinxMaube, but I'm not sure, I haven't had Trinity in a while. (it's not available for Fedora, nor does it seem likely in the forseeable future.)
raevynwhat if i moved the files i am missing from the virtual machine directory into the main system directory?
raevynokay i copied kdf over and now it does run appearing with the kde3 theming rather than kde4.. so maybe that is all i have to do?
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raevynhello im back. i had to restart.
raevynso, i confirmed with another VM that indeed the enterprise version of TDE comes with more software.
raevynBut I have some concerns... Ubuntu was great at hardware detection and has a good software repo... so first off is the Trinity DVD incorporate thsoe ubuntu traits? And, I would like to still keep gnome or install it after installing Trinity Enterprise.. can I still do that?
raevynoh you know, no on is here lol. I will try back on Monday
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Xu_RKingSphinx: uhhh... standard FHS, Fedora policy, etc?
KingSphinxOh well, hopefully something can be done to get it ported to Fedora. If not, guess it's migration time for me. :/
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Raevynhi.. so somehow i have dolphin popping up on me when i open folders. is there a way to get back to konquerer?
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Space_ManK menu / System settings / Default applications / File associations / Inode / Directory / add Konqueror here or move it up
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KingSphinxWell, I was surprised to see that Trinity indeed has jockey-gtk, so I can still install the necessary drivers for my wireless card even with no wired connection. :D
KingSphinxWhoops, that didn't come out right.
KingSphinxI was surprised to see that Trinity still has jockey-gtk, so I can still install my wireless drivers.
KingSphinxOh wait, that *did* all come out the first time. Sorry! ^^;
* kb9vqf notes that we support GTK applications in preference to Qt4 ones, as 1) we can overlay Trinity themes on them and 2) they are more stable and less resource hungry than Qt4 apps tend to be
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tbottuOnlyHuman: Error: "rpm" is not a valid command.
OnlyHumanv rpm
OnlyHumanquack quack
Xu_Rnot cool, OnlyHuman
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Xu_RI'll take the beating for him on this one.
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elcaset__hello howdy
l0neranyone here from who i could get some help with compiling (or rather non-compiling) parts of trinity?
elcaset__I am not experienced enough to help with compiling, but I bet someone here ios.
elcaset__oops, here is.
l0nerkb9vqf should be able to help
l0nerbut it seems he's away
elcaset__i tried Porteus GNU/Linux with Trinity pre-installed.  i like it, so far.
l0nerI used the Ubuntu-based trinity distro
l0nerbut it was ubuntu, which is too blated for me
l0nernormally I use gentoo
l0nerwhich I can configure any way I want
KingSphinxThe only other version of Trinity available that I know of is Slackware, so... there's a Gentoo version?
l0nerno, there is overlay but it sucks
KingSphinxthe kde-sunset overlay?
l0nerso I pulled trinity code from svn and I'm trying to compile it maually
l0nerno the kde-trinity
KingSphinxWouldn't know about compiling something as big as Trinity, sorry.
l0nerit's not in the main overlay list
l0nerkay, I'll wait
* KingSphinx has never used a Linux distro more complex than Fedora...
l0nerwell, the gentoo is not complex
l0nerbut You'll need to learn how it handles some aspects
KingSphinxI'm perfectly aware of DIY stuff like that, I just prefer the "noobier" stuff like Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian
l0nerI prefered it years ago
l0nerthen I noticed it was too heavy for me, and too bloated
l0nerso I moved directly from ubuntu tu gentoo
l0nerand didn't had many problems
KingSphinxNothing wrong with that, though I still prefer my choices. :P
l0nerthe handbook is pretty clear on how to install it
KingSphinxUSE flags seem very cool though.
l0neryeah, I know ;) It's the "different distro for every user" rule :P
l0nerI even thought about doing it hardcore way, using the LFS
l0nerbut it's a little too much for me :P
KingSphinxI might have to migrate back to Kubuntu Trinity, since it now seems unlikely that Trinity can be properly ported to Fedora (something about packages not being allowed to be installed in /opt...?)
l0nerdunno, never used Fedora. But I had read about it in the channels history
l0nerit seems pretty pointless blocking the /opt dir, which existence was to allow user install external thing he needed
l0nerat least it's what i had been told years ago
KingSphinxI know, but there's not much I can really do. But... I found my old Google Chrome install in /opt, and it was an RPM package, so maybe... hmm...
l0nermaybe they don't allow thing installed by user,
l0nernot by the repo system or things like that
l0neror maybe it was there before they introduced this "nothing in /opt" rule and there is nothing that would delete it
* l0ner thinks about getting some sleep
l0nerwell... bbl
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Space_ManKDE Frameworks 5.0 In Development http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/08/07/2128222/KDE-Frameworks-50-In-Development
KingSphinxIt's only in development, but... this technically means Trinity's now two generations out-of-date. Dunno whether to laugh of feel depressed...
elcaset__some folks over at the PCLOS irc are trying to convince me that KDE Trinity has no hope.  There is some hope, right?
Space_Manyes there is still lots of life in Trinity
elcaset__awesome!.  thanks Space_Man.
Space_Manhas Qt5 even been announced?
elcaset__it's in the works, but i don't know beyond that.
Space_Mana blogpost about qt5 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/09/thoughts-about-qt-5/
elcaset__there were qt5 discussions supposedly at that KDE gathering in Europe that occured in the last 3 months.
Space_Man"beta quality code available towards the end of the year and final Qt 5.0 release some time during 2012."
Space_ManTim has written "TQt" which bridges qt3 and qt4
KingSphinxA question about TQt: is it supposed to be a fork of the old Qt3 or is it something like a bridge for Qt4?
Space_Manit used the best bits from both :P
KingSphinxOh, nvm, saw above
Space_ManI'm 100% certain of the details
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KingSphinxWill there eventually be bits from Qt5?
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Xu_RKingSphinx: yes, there will. but we have to get to Qt4 first :P
Xu_Rtime to download the latest nightly build for my xubuntu and see the SVN changes :D
* KingSphinx feels lost amongst all the programmers... (cannot program anything to save my life)
Xu_Rwell, I only know basic C++ programming
Xu_Rthat I learned last year... >_>"
KingSphinxI barely know HTML... ^^;
Xu_RI'm learning Java next year. Wish me luck, because Java is hell xD
Xu_Rfk, I just remember I still have to renew my Linux Foundation Membership (which I didn't know I had >_>")
Xu_Rok, that's not good. latest nightly build isn't starting up trinity at all...
Xu_Rbut checking xsession-errors, it looks like everything is working...
Xu_Roh, god, I want to punch Upstart in the face so badly right now...
* KingSphinx notes that this is why I'm not brave enough to use nightly builds
* Xu_R is the daredevil on virtual machines :P
Xu_RKingSphinx: this is why I have XFCE as another desktop :P
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kb9vqfXu_R: Nightly builds were suspended a few days ago due to old packages not being purge from the archive
kb9vqfThe problem has been resolved and builds are restarting
* kb9vqf whispers ethereal wisps of a new feature, long absent from Linux http://websvn.kde.org/?view=revision&revision=1245566
kb9vqfFor those who think Trinity has no future, bear in mind that we maintain Qt3 as upstream
kb9vqfSince Qt3 was absorbed, you could think of Trinity as a pure Xlib desktop ;-)
kb9vqfalso, since TQt porting is complete, it would be theoretically possible to move Qt3 to the new TQ* namespace, thus eliminating any potential conflicts with Qt4
kb9vqfthis could be done independently of the Trinity desktop project
kb9vqfQt4 is a shifting target (still!) and has significant performance issues
kb9vqfnot all the problems with KDE4 are due to the KDE4 developers....
KingSphinxI really don't get why there's people that say "Trinity has no future"; last I checked, as long as a project has demand and developers still active, it has a future. </opinion>
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kde3ftwanyone have any experience with servicemenus?  I'm trying to make a right click open with console here for folders but when I use it, it always sends me to the ~ directory not the directory i right clicked on.  My servicemenu .desktop file is here: http://pastebin.com/Z75CeD2f
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kb9vqfkde3ftw: You will need to pass the --workdir flag to Konsole, along with  (so 'konsole --workdir ')
kb9vqfkde3ftw: You will need to pass the --workdir flag to Konsole, along with  (so 'konsole --workdir %U')
kb9vqfIRC keeps eating the % signs
kb9vqflet's try that one more time
kb9vqfkde3ftw: You will need to pass the --workdir flag to Konsole, along with %U (so 'konsole --workdir %U')
kb9vqfthere we go
kde3ftwkb9vqf -- Thanks ill give it a try -- and btw thanks for all the development on kde3 :)
kde3ftwkb9vqf ---> the Exec='konsole --workdir %U" didnt work BUT Exec=konsole --workdir '%U' does! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction :)
kb9vqfglad to hear it
kb9vqfyes, I forgot the quotes
kb9vqfit's been a while since I worked on service menus :)
kde3ftwwhoops posted um wrong too.. did the " 's and ''s
kde3ftwyeah.. having access to the console from anywhere is just so helpful though :)
kde3ftwkb9vqf -- thanks again and gnite!
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KingSphinxAbout the whole "Trinity-decoupling-from-Ubuntu" thing: the Kubuntu wiki says that Trinity's moved to a yearly schedule. Does this mean that the next release will likely be released as 11.10 or is this more of a "when it's done" sort of thing?
kb9vqfwhen it's done
kb9vqfprobably on a yearly schedule
kb9vqf6mos is too short
KingSphinxI imagine so, especially given the relative size of the project compared to, say, current KDE
KingSphinxWith the instructions given on the site, however, it is possible to stay current?
KingSphinxAlso, completely unrelated, but it really is impressive how lightweight 3.x is... just saw a video of someone running 3.5.10 very well on a Pentium 4 and only 1 GB of RAM :)
kb9vqfwe are building Natty packages now
kb9vqfthere won't be this long hiatus in the future
kb9vqfour build system broke when Natty was released
kb9vqfdue to Autotools changes
kb9vqfit took quite some time to get those problems fixed
kb9vqfIMHO the desktop *should* be that light :)
kb9vqfbelieve it or not, on powerful, modern hardware, Trinity still feels a bit sluggish at times when used at very high screen resolutions
KingSphinxJust for curiosity's sake (sorry, I love asking questions), it'll pretty much by Natty, but still 3.5.12?
KingSphinx1280x1024's not that high, is it?
kb9vqftry 1080 ;-)
kb9vqftry 3840x1080 ;-)
kb9vqfwhat do you mean "by natty"?
* kb9vqf thinks KDE4 would be especially unusable at that resolution
KingSphinxlol, possibly
KingSphinxYou'd need one heck of a computer to run it at a decent speed, that's for sure
* KingSphinx still ran KDE 4.2 on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 and 512 MB of RAM back when 9.04 was around
KingSphinxI still have that old clunker of a computer, just upgraded to 1 GB RAM and GeForce 4 graphics
elcaset__KDE 4.2 is a lot faster than KDE 4.5 in my usage.
KingSphinxSomehow, KDE 4 ran just as badly after the upgrades.
KingSphinxYou know a desktop is bloated when Trinity can beat it running off the CD
KingSphinxTo be fair, 4 runs pretty well on my current rig, but Trinity's still ending up on it one way or another. Even if I have to distro-hop back to Kubuntu to do it.
* KingSphinx is wondering how exactly one goes about installing a new distro over an old one while keeping your /home partition
kb9vqfa cell phone OS may run very well on a desktop computer, but then why have the desktop computer at all?  Just buy another cell phone... :-P
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* l0ner is back
l0nerNotice: the trinitydesktop.org/wiki main page has been spammed and now it's displaying some text about insurances...
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Space_Manthe wiki spam has been removed
l0nergood thing
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l0nerI'm having trouble compiling the kdelibs. Error I get: http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/454660/
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MutantTurkeyI had this idea.
MutantTurkeybasically I am sick of programs stealing CPU uselessly, and i was thinking (if only i could pause them!) but then i thought, wait this is linux. SIGTSTP works perfectly.
MutantTurkeyNow I am hacking onto dwm to automatically SIGTSTP anytime a window goes out of focus.
MutantTurkeythen SIGTCONT when it is refocused
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MutantTurkeyo/ Xu_R
Xu_Rhey MutantTurkey
MutantTurkeywhats up man
Xu_Rgotta finish summer hw and get stuff
MutantTurkeyoh nice
arMutantTurkey: you know you're basically reimplementing ios multitasking?
MutantTurkeyar: what!
MutantTurkeyar: no idea actually, what is ios?
Xu_RMutantTurkey: iOS = iPhone OS
MutantTurkeyso yes basically.
MutantTurkeyexcept on the desktop
arand it might be a good battery saver
MutantTurkeybecause I don't need ffx taking 25% cpu to draw gifs and flash apps in the background
MutantTurkeyI need a system of orginizing and tagging programs.
MutantTurkeyso that all firefox's pause automatically, but never do it to a terminal etc.
MutantTurkeyand manual for all of it
l0nerMutantTurkey: share it when You finish it
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kb9vqfSpace_Man: Where was the wiki spam, and do you know how it got there?
kb9vqfIt sounds like something wasn't locked down correctly
Space_Man2 people made accounts, #1 added a new page and the #2 added a new page and edited the start page
Space_Manthe pages were ShortTermLoans and Trash.MainJazelAseAs
Space_Manthe spammers were RaynnPada and MainJazelAseAs
Space_Manearlier I made a foswiki account and deleted the pages and users
l0nerkb9vqf: I have some problems compiling the kdelibs. Don't know if you've seen my msg earlier
kb9vqfno I didn't
kb9vqfwhat is your problem?
l0nerthis is what i get
kb9vqfcompile and install the latest Qt3 sources from our GIT repository
kb9vqfour Qt3 is extended vs. the old Qt3 in most distributions' package systems
l0nerdid, but I will try to recompile
kb9vqfyes, the change is recent
kb9vqfwithin the past few days
l0nerok, is there any way to checkout anonymously from your git?
MutantTurkeysame way as regularly
MutantTurkeyjust don't use the user@ bit
l0nerok, thx
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: the development page is handy
kb9vqfglad to hear it :)
kb9vqf(of course you were the one that worked on it so...)
MutantTurkeyit should encourage more developers anyhow
kb9vqfSpace_Man: The main Web was not locked down
kb9vqfIt is now
kb9vqfno more spam I hope :)
l0nerlinux amuses me...
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RaevynHello. Is there any instructions to install TDE on ubuntu 11?
Raevynoh.. well thats odd. I uninstalled kde 4 and that took out much of tde.. though the software center seems to be running something to repair broken deps
Space_ManRaevyn: did you fix your Dolphin / Konqueror problem?
Raevynoh yes.. i uninstalled dolphin
Raevynit owuld be nice to have it as an option but I couldnt find anyplace to go to make konqeror my default
Space_ManK menu / System settings / Default applications / File associations / Inode / Directory / add Konqueror here or move it up
Raevynthank you! I will try it again :)
Space_Mandid you use ubuntu or kubuntu 11.04?
Raevynubuntu 10.10 upgraded to 11.04.
Space_Manlater I'm going to install ubuntu 11.04 trinity but I don't know how to
Space_ManI guess install ubuntu 11.04 then add the trinity repo's
RaevynI was going to let the software center fix itself then try installing TDE again
Raevynhm.. it still fails to install. is there maybe a way to make it install if it was installed previously and was damaged?
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kb9vqfXu_R: I think the polkit problem is fixed with the new package tde-ubuntu-integration
kb9vqfcan you try it?
*** kb9vqf changes topic to "Trinity Desktop Environment 3.5.12 is out! Get it at http://www.trinitydesktop.org Also, consider joining the Trinity mailing lists [http://bit.ly/hZ83mF]. IRC will be most active/helpful during business hours in the USA. BOTW #394 [http://bit.ly/i3tpT5] CMake status [http://bit.ly/fvh4f2] Natty [http://bit.ly/kzH5mO] Support the Project! [http://bit.ly/pmkMVB]"
l0nercan I ask someting?
l0nerwhat exactly aRts is?
kb9vqfit's a sound system proxy
kb9vqfa sort of abstraction layer that sits between Trinity apps and OSS/ALSA/PulseAudio/etc
l0nerok, thx
l0neranother question: do You plan on supporting PulseAudio, with it's fetures, in TDE?
l0nersince PulseAudio seems like nice thing when looked at description on their main page
l0neryet, I never seen it actually work like it should
Xu_Rkb9vqf: back from school supply shopping XD yess, will boot up and test asap
kb9vqfl0ner: Which features?
kb9vqfPulse works fine in Trinity right now
l0nerkb9vqf: like separate volume control for each app
l0neror it is already included
kb9vqffor each app? no
kb9vqfdidn't even know that was available :-/
l0ner"Generic hardware abstraction, giving the possibility of doing things like individual volumes per application."
l0nertaken from pulse website
l0nerit would be really nice to have this, since I was using this a lot in win7
l0nerand I always missed this in linux
kb9vqfI don't even know if any GUIs/DEs currently allow you to do that
kb9vqfNever heard of it personally
kb9vqfJust because a backedn supports something doesn't mean there are any frontends yet--just look at XRandR 1.2
Xu_Rkb9vqf: the package hasn't appeared on mirrors yet, so you'll have to wait a day D:
kb9vqfThat being said...you should file a feature request bug report
kb9vqfXu_R: OK
kb9vqfthat makes sense
Xu_Rkb9vqf: how about kdesudo? is it fixed? :o
l0nerkb9vqf: will thought about it ;)
kb9vqfl0ner: Describe at least one way to access the proposed feature (e.g. via a configuration dialog in kmix, right-clicking on a running application titlebar/taskbar entry, etc.)
kb9vqfin the bug report that is
kb9vqfXu_R: you can pull it directly from https://quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/~trinity/+archive/trinity-nightly-builds/+files/tde-ubuntu-integration_0.1-0_all.deb
l0nerkb9vqf: ok, I will do it later, when I thought about it ;)
kb9vqfsure :)
kb9vqfwe can't know what our users want unless they tell us :)
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: what is the meta package for trinity under debian?
MutantTurkeyas in, how can I install all trinity packages with a single command
Xu_Rkb9vqf: testing
Xu_Rand I confirmed a TDE entry now in KDM :D
Xu_Rkb9vqf: and it works :D
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: kde-trinity
kb9vqfXu_R: Without your previous hack in place?
MutantTurkeyalso what l0ner said is a great idea
Xu_RI removed the previous hack before installing the package
kb9vqfXu_R: I set ksmserver to recommend tde-ubuntu-integration
kb9vqfso it should get sucked in when someone installs via the metapackage
kb9vqfand if it doesn't, a search in synaptic for tde and policykit should turn it up ;-)
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: D: kdesu still doesn't work...
kb9vqfI expect that
kb9vqfit hasn't been uploaded yet
Xu_Rah, ok.
kb9vqfas I mentioned before the nightly builds stalled due to obsolete packages not being automatically purged
Xu_Rah, right.
kb9vqfit's amazing how fast you can chew through disk space that way :rolleyes:
kb9vqfI'm working on a few glitches, then I'll restart the builds
Xu_Roh, yea. I know. /me looks at his server here... >_>
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MutantTurkeyinstalling trinity on my vps xD
Xu_Rkb9vqf: ok, this is an interesting development
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I got tired of kdesudo, so I removed kdesudo-trinity...
Xu_Rand then all of a sudden it's working... without the package?
Xu_Rok, lemme rephrase that - kdesudo isn't working, but kdesu *is* and is accepting sudo requests...
kb9vqfkdesu is the fallback
* Xu_R is glad now that he killed off the kdesudo-trinity package then because it's not working...
MutantTurkeyI did apt-get install kde-trinity and everything is named like kde4...
MutantTurkeyeven while it works like trinity
MutantTurkeyactually I have no idea whats going on
l0nerI recompiled qt, recompiled tqt, and arts
l0nerand I still can't compile kdelibs
l0nerI the same error
l0ner*I got
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MutantTurkeykicker is eating my cpu at 100%
MutantTurkeyis that normal for first boot?
MutantTurkeycaching the entries or something?
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: ^
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MutantTurkeywhat i think happened was that kde4 started alongside trinity, and locked everything up.
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KingSphinxI got Trinity installed! :D
KingSphinxAnd managed to keep my /home as well, though getting wireless working with no wired connection was a PITA
Xu_Ralways is.
KingSphinxEspecially with Broadcom cards...
MutantTurkeywireless is a totaly pain if you don't memorize how to do it.
MutantTurkeyat this point I have it all memorized.
MutantTurkeydhcpcd is your friend!!
l0nerstrange, i had no problem with my broadcom card
MutantTurkeyl0ner: about half the people love it, the other half hate it.
l0neryeah, i know
l0nerproblem is, 99% of users are using generic kernel
KingSphinxFedora didn't have any trouble detecting/using it out-of-box... and *only* Fedora can, I don't know why.
l0nerand need to use strange things
MutantTurkeyKingSphinx: haven't tried arch yet then :p
Xu_Ror suse :P
MutantTurkeydoesn't everyone still mostly self compile kernels?
l0nermaybe because Fedora has precompiled modules for broadcom and ships firmware
KingSphinxTried SuSE, that doesn't either
Xu_Rstrange - I've always gotten SuSE to work for me... /me has strange luck with it
l0nerabout what kind of user we are talking? unless you are advanced, you'll use generic kernel
l0nereven on gentoo, where compiling your own kernel is a part of installation, there are some people who prefer the genkernel
MutantTurkeyI suqqsaI suppose
MutantTurkey I always have self compiled, out of habit I guess
MutantTurkeyplus my kernel is lean and mean
l0nerI have self compiled because i like my kernel minimal and moduleless
l0neri keep only minimal set of modules, everything else is included in kernel
MutantTurkeymodules are annoying as heck
l0nerand they slow down bootup
MutantTurkeymy hardware is always the same, therefore dynamic loaded modules is ineffiecient
l0nersame for me, sice I'm running linux on my laptop
kb9vqfl0ner: Then you must have two versions of Qt3 installed
kb9vqfours and your distro's stock version
kb9vqftry to locate qstyle
kb9vqftry to 'locate qstyle.h' and see if you have it in multiple header directories
l0nerthe problem is: my distro don't ship qt3 anymore
KingSphinxYour distro of choice?
l0nerthey stopped something like 2 years ago, when decided to drop kde3.5
KingSphinxkde-sunset overlay?
* Xu_R wonders where samelian went
* Xu_R notes that samelian was working on gentoo/kde-sunset IIRC
l0neri used it, but it sucked, too many bugs, so i purged my system from it
l0nerright now i should have only qt3 from your git
* KingSphinx wonders if TDE will get ported to Gentoo...
l0neri was thinking about it
KingSphinxAlso, just my opinion, but while TDE's version of Konqueror makes a great file manager, it's kinda dated as a web browser.
l0nerKingSphinx: never liked konqueror as web browser
l0neri prefer have them separated
KingSphinxCurrent version of Konqueror's much-improved, I can say this from experience.
l0nerbut it's because of my philosophy: one app for one thing
l0nerKingSphinx: you say? maybe i'll try to give it a shot
MutantTurkeyl0ner: i follow that mostly as well.
KingSphinxQuick question: would simply installing ubuntu-restricted-extras do the trick for MP3 codecs and Flash/whatever?
KingSphinxOr does Trinity have its own way of installing proprietary codecs?
Xu_RKingSphinx: ubuntu-restricted-extras is all you need
MutantTurkeyguys I am running into a big problem
MutantTurkeyfirst of all kde4 is running alongside trinity, no idea why.
MutantTurkeysecond of all, I have no idea how it got installed  D:
KingSphinxThat sounds odd, yet strangely cool.
Xu_Rsounds like recommends got pulled in
l0nerok, I think i found where my problem is
MutantTurkeyXu_R: yeah..
Xu_RMutantTurkey: try removing any bits of kde4 you have
Xu_R(just remove qt4, it'll pull down the rest of kde4)
MutantTurkeyapt-get remove?
MutantTurkeyit says unable to locate qt4
Xu_RMutantTurkey: apt-cache search qt4 | less
Xu_Rand locate the qt4 libarary
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MutantTurkeyanot even there.
MutantTurkeyapt is so counter intuitive
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: That happens because Plasma is set to autolaunch at all times
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: what should I do?
kb9vqfReally stupid design decision IMHO
kb9vqfwhich version of Ubuntu are you on?
kb9vqflook for the plasma.desktop autostart file
kb9vqfand for now move it somewhere else
MutantTurkeywhere whould that be?
kb9vqfthat will kill KDE4 though
kb9vqftry in /etc/xdg/autostart or similar
kb9vqfI don't recall OTOH
MutantTurkeynot there.
* Xu_R is pretty sure MutantTurkey doesn't want kde4 anyway XP
MutantTurkeyI don't even have kde4 installed afaik
kb9vqfwell then move /usr/bin/plasma to /usr/bin/plasma.bkp ;-)
kb9vqfthat will completely kill KDE4 :)
Xu_Ror remove libqtcore4
Xu_R(and kill everything >:D)
MutantTurkeygoot call
kb9vqfthe /usr/bin/plasma hack will at least let you use KDE4 apps if neede
MutantTurkeyI don't even use kde4....
MutantTurkeyI don't even know how it got here!
Xu_Ruse aptitude next time ;P
kb9vqfprobably through some weird apt recommends chain
MutantTurkeyfrankly I don't understand the whole dkpksystem
MutantTurkeyand there is terrible lag all of a sudden :[
l0nerthats why i choose gentoo
l0neri control what i get in my system
l0nerand i can configure some dependencies through USE flags
kb9vqfto each his own
kb9vqfin my case gentoo would represent unmanageable administrative overhead :)
kb9vqfso it was worth it to learn dpkg in all its gory detauls
MutantTurkeyl0ner: thats why I use arch,... because it doesn't suck with dpepends
l0nerMutantTurkey: from what i heard from my friend who uses arch, they are pretty much the same
l0nergentoo and arch i mean
MutantTurkeybut not identical
MutantTurkeyI think pacman is very sane for package managing.
l0nermaybe some day i will try arch
MutantTurkeyalot of people make the switch from gentoo
l0neri imagine
l0nersince first 4 attempts to install will fail :P
l0nerit was like this for me
l0nerbut back then gcc didn't accept CFLAGS="-march=native"
l0nerone i set this wrong, second time i tried to install gentoo without multilib on 64bit system
l0nerback then it was impossible to get working system without multilib
l0nerthird time i dont remember, but i think i had some issues with ld
l0nerfourth finally was successful ;)
MutantTurkeythat is the greatest thing ever
MutantTurkey-march=native is awesome.
l0neryeah :)
l0nerit resolved problems with choosing right march
l0neron some strange processors like mine i3
MutantTurkeyatom really benifits
MutantTurkeybecause its stack is different
l0nerI can imagine ;)
* l0ner never had atom based machine though
MutantTurkeyI love it
MutantTurkeyi mean it pulls like 25W of power
MutantTurkeyat max load...
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kb9vqfof course it's not much more powerful than a pocket calculator ;-)
MutantTurkeybasically not :P
Xu_Rlooks like l0ner abruptly exited...
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Xu_Rwb l0ner
l0neri accidentally hit ctrl+w
MutantTurkeyactually It ranks somewghere really low on the scale
Xu_Roops lol
l0nerwhich closes current tab in kvirc
l0nerMutantTurkey: my laptop pulls something around 50W on battery
l0nerand 25W on ac plugged on
l0nerand i cannot understand why
kb9vqfgraphics card
kb9vqfLinux probably does not put it to sleep as it should
kb9vqfwhich graphics card manufacturer
MutantTurkeyalso I love the atom because it has great support for linux
MutantTurkeyeverything runs great.
MutantTurkeyonly think I dislike is the lack of any processing power...
MutantTurkeyalso the graphics card is weak
MutantTurkeybut the newer versions have improved considerably.
kb9vqfthat's how you get low power ;P
l0nerI was monitoring everything with powertop and noticed that acpi is waking up the processor more on battery
l0nerwhile on ac it isn't
kb9vqfnewer kernels should fix that
l0neri'm using 2.6.39
l0nerright now
kb9vqfthen I have no idea :)
MutantTurkeynot 3.0?
MutantTurkeyI mean we have 3.0 in our regular core now...
l0nergentoo don't have it yet in stable
kb9vqfoh wait
l0nerit's masked right now
kb9vqf2.6.39 is the problem
MutantTurkeyarch is like bleeed bleed bleeding edge.
MutantTurkeyI run arch + testing branch.
MutantTurkeybut somehow  Ihave never had a problem!
l0nerok, i'll update my kernel when 3.0 hits stable
l0neri thought it was because my laptop was samsung
MutantTurkeythats the problem
MutantTurkeynext time buy a better laptop xD
l0nerand use some obscure thigns for power mngmnt
kb9vqfodd hardware may not have full support from Linux
l0neri know
MutantTurkeyactually I have a few samsung products I really love
kb9vqfalso ACPI is sometimes handled by the BIOS
l0nerbut i didn't had much choice
l0nerit was a present from my grandfather
kb9vqfso the wakeup events may just increase due to the design of the laptop
MutantTurkeyI have a problem with ext4
kb9vqfe.g. the BIOS may be monitoring the battery more frequently, etc.
MutantTurkeyit won't let me hard drive sleep ever
MutantTurkeyit constantly writes back to me
l0nerthe only samsung devices i love are their tv
MutantTurkeydumb journaling
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Increase the commit interval and use noatime
l0neranyway i'll look at my power issues after i managed to install trinity ;D
kb9vqfnoatime should do it alone in theory :)(
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I do...
MutantTurkeyand noatime is default
MutantTurkeyits the journaling writeback.
kb9vqfno it isn't default
MutantTurkeyand even with a 1 minute commit, it's pointless
kb9vqfI know from experience
MutantTurkeykb9vqf:  I mean for my systems :)
kb9vqfoh, OK :)
MutantTurkeyI need to disable commits while not doing anything,
kb9vqfno, you need to disable writing to disk when not doing anything
MutantTurkeynothing writes to it though
MutantTurkeyit's jus the journal every 15 seconds or so
kb9vqfyou have a nasty little app somewhere that like to write to the disk
MutantTurkeyI don't even run logs.
kb9vqfthat doesn't sound right
kb9vqfthe journal would only be updated if something is written to disk
MutantTurkeyI did a bit of research and It seems a few people has this problem
kb9vqfsounds weird
kb9vqfon my systems ext4 is great
l0nerkb9vgf: ok, so i found where my problem was, recompiled everyting and now i get this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/454951/
kb9vqfooh, nice
kb9vqfwhat architecture are you on?
MutantTurkeythat bug report just goes on and on
kb9vqfl0ner: Sounds like HAVE_SYS_STAT_H is unset
kb9vqfare you compiling with CMake?
l0neri followed the wiki
kb9vqfl0ner: Do you have sys/stat.h present on your system?
l0nerkb9vqf: dunno, will look it up now. But i think not
kb9vqfok, that's your problem
kb9vqfinstall whatever package provides it
kb9vqfand rerun the entire compilation of kdelibs
l0nerkb9vqf: ok, thx ;)
l0nerwill report how it has gone
l0nerkb9vqf: wait, i think i found it in /usr/include/sys/stat.h
MutantTurkeyanyway, I've gotta catch the train i'll see you folks later!
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* KingSphinx is wondering why GTK apps aren't blending in...
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KingSphinxI have gtk-qt-engine installed, but they aren't blending in.
KingSphinxDo I need to tell GTK to use Qt styles in System Settings?
kb9vqfKingSphinx: "Use my KDE style"
kb9vqfthen logout/login
kb9vqfalso, Firefox is a royal pain
kb9vqfit likes to use its own widgets for several items
kb9vqfFirefox 4 is worse in this respect
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KingSphinxThere we go, that fixed it.
kb9vqfwhat did?
kb9vqfoh, nevermind
kb9vqfl0ner_away: CMake can't find your sys/stat.h file
kb9vqfyou will need to look in its logs to figure out why
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l0ner_awaykb9vqf: ok, will look it up now
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l0nerkb9vqf: "-- Looking for sys/stat.h - found" taken from cmake output
kb9vqfl0ner: OK, in kdelibs/dcop/dcopserver.cpp, comment out the HAVE_SYS_STAT_H #ifdef and #endif
kb9vqfthen try recomliling
l0nerkb9vqf: as for now it's compiling
l0neruh... error: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/454963/
l0nerhere is the cmake optput: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/454964/
kb9vqfobviously the header autodetection system is not working on your system
kb9vqfl0ner: Ask on the mailing list with your logs
kb9vqfI didn't write the CMake code for that function, and from what I can tell it should be working
kb9vqfthe only thing I can suggest is to look in the generated config.h file and make sure HAVE_SYS_STAT_H is set
kb9vqfsorry I can't be of much more help here
l0nerkb9vqf: no prob ;0
l0ner* :)
l0neranyway, it seems that HAVE_SYS_STAT_H is set, i found it in the config.h file
l0neri will ask on dev mailing list
l0nerkb9vqf: it will be better to send message to the developers list, or the users one?
kb9vqfit may take some time too
l0nerok, thx. Sending now
kb9vqfSerghei Amelian will know the most about CMake
l0neruh... my message wasn't delivered
kb9vqfl0ner: Are you a list member?
l0nerI subscribed before sending
kb9vqfand did you get the confirmation message?
kb9vqffor subscription that is
kb9vqfwhere did you send you message to?
l0nerbut it tells me that only subscribers can send messages to the list
kb9vqfwhich list did you subscribe to?
kb9vqfyou need to subscribe to trinity-devel
kb9vqfnot trinity-users
l0nerand i subscribed by sending a empty mail to trinity-devel-subscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net
kb9vqfwhat is your Email address?
kb9vqfl0ner: I manually added you
kb9vqfyou weren't subscribed
l0nerok, thx ;)
l0nerstrange, since I recieved the confirmation mail
kb9vqfI know
kb9vqfsometimes weird things happen
kb9vqfl0ner: you did respond to the confirmation email, right
kb9vqfoh well
l0nerbut now i got message from gmail that my message couldn't be sent
l0nermaybe gmail webmail issues
kb9vqfsounds like it
kb9vqfthat's why I don't question the failures
kb9vqfit can fail at so many points
kb9vqfand do so intermittently
kb9vqfall I know is that my servers work :)
kb9vqfit's up to everyone else's Email to work properly
l0nerand the more complex the system is, the more it can broke
kb9vqfGoogle does glitch from time to time
l0nernormally i'd use some app for my mail, but right now i have clean gentoo, only with gnome, and I can't setup the evolution to work properely
* l0ner is thinking about getting some sleep
l0nerwell, I'll be back when when my actuall problem get resolved and I stumble over another ;P
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KingSphinxYay, Audacity seems to want to crash under Trinity...
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MutantTurkeytrying to do this all in a chroot :)
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KingSphinxIs there any way to get Konqueror to use something besides KHTML or is that beyond the capabilities of this version of Konqueror?
kb9vqfKHTMl is your only option
kb9vqfI know the new one uses Webkit, but the new one is missing so many feature  that it is unusable IMHO
kb9vqfkind of like comparing Trinity's Konqueror to the mac file browser
kb9vqfbesides, Chrome is faster ;-)
KingSphinxEh, kinda expected that. The current Konqueror IMO wasn't too bad as a web browser (KHTML's made a ton of steps forward), but it's sort of forgotten how to be a good file manager. Sort of the opposite of this version. :P
kb9vqfso, use two separate apps
kb9vqflet each be best for one thing for now :)
KingSphinxFirefox does the job... plus it can actually save stuff. Chromium at the moment doesn't seem to want to let me save anything; it'll open up Nautilus' save dialog and whatnot, but it's not really saving anything because the download bar's not showing up.
KingSphinxNot to mention Audacity seems to crash with kgtk-qt3 providing the open/save dialogs.
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MutantTurkeykb9vqf: well I can test bugs now!
MutantTurkeyusing rdesktop to my vps
kb9vqfgreat! :)
kb9vqfKingSphinx: I think that crash is fixed in SVN
MutantTurkeyso I will be hacking out bugs asap
kb9vqfKingSphinx: if you are using 3.5.12 then I would expect the crash to exist
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: OK
kb9vqfsounds very good
MutantTurkeyjust trying to strip it down to help it run faster
MutantTurkeyover the network
MutantTurkeyso disabling stuff right now
MutantTurkeylooking back, the motif theme was just patheticly awful
MutantTurkeyfrankly solaris and CDE all looked like crap... I mean it wasn't even simple it was just bad.
MutantTurkeythe themes were horrid
KingSphinxI find a charm in the eye-gouging ugliness of it all.
MutantTurkeyKingSphinx: I prefer simple themes, yet i still am unhappy with every one i find
MutantTurkeyactually this one I am using now is great
KingSphinxIsn't Trinity's default theme the same one used in Kubuntu Hardy?
KingSphinxJust with a new wallpaper?
kb9vqfBTW Trinity contains several simple themes
KingSphinxYeah, I know, I've gone through them :)
kb9vqfdo you like Windows 2000?
kb9vqfthw widget theme that is
* kb9vqf can't type...again
MutantTurkeylight style 2 is my new fav
KingSphinxI do like the style of Windows Classic (pretty much 95-2000), but not on my Linux partition. :P
MutantTurkeyI can't stand the new windows themes
MutantTurkeythe old ones I like due to simplicity
KingSphinxIt just doesn't look "right" having TDE look like old Windows...
kb9vqfjust curious
kb9vqfpersonally I use Lipstik
kb9vqfit's relatively light and gives lots of information when widgets are hovered upon, etc.
MutantTurkeyis bug 229 still valid? It seems this is already included..
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=229 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, REOPENED, include kickoff menu with trinity
kb9vqfIt's definitely there :)
MutantTurkeywell robert left some message at the bottom
kb9vqfI don't support Kickoff
kb9vqfif he wants to fix it then he can be my guest :)
MutantTurkeysince it stinks...
MutantTurkeyits really counter intuitive and requires alot more thought.
kb9vqfI hate it
kb9vqfsplit the bug
MutantTurkeymark as WONTFIX?
kb9vqfcreate a new one for the Kickoff improvements, copy&paste his text, then mark this one closed
MutantTurkeylet me check them first
MutantTurkeymaybe an old probelm
KingSphinxThat said though (about the Redmond theme), it does do a good job replicating the Windows look.
kb9vqfasteriod is much closer
MutantTurkeyredmond does a good job
KingSphinxI think KDE 4.8 might replace Kickoff with something else...
MutantTurkeyI can't get past nepomuk
MutantTurkeyit just kills me.
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: also make sure the new bug is marked lowest priority
kb9vqfnepomuk STINKS
kb9vqfthere are parts of Windows I like
MutantTurkeywell most of his stuff works for me...
kb9vqfbut only up to Windows XP and the old interface
kb9vqf(not the new "Crayola" one)
MutantTurkeyalso, whats the state of our khtml?
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Say so in the new bug report
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Just as bad as ever
kb9vqfit's a very low priority here
MutantTurkeyyes I assumed so
MutantTurkeywe are going to do a -> webkit right?
kb9vqfas we have a handful of good web browsers available
KingSphinxAnd I'm guessing unlikely to get any better?
MutantTurkeytqt interface to webkit. :P
kb9vqffirefox, chrome, opera, etc.
kb9vqfeventually a KHTML->Webkit transition is planned, but I haven't even started
MutantTurkeyI love webkit (i have my own gtk webkit browser)
kb9vqfvolunteers are welcome :)
kb9vqfactually as soon as we get completely off the Qt namespace we can integrate Webkit
kb9vqfas the code is TQt ported we are very close
kb9vqfto getting off the Qt namespace that is :)_
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: looks like his remarks are invalid.
MutantTurkeynone seem to apply for me
kb9vqfok...but that still doesn't make the fact that he posted to a substantially different bug any better :-P
MutantTurkeyI am going to close it.
kb9vqfmark it closed, mention that it works for you, and remind him that a new bug report should be filed
MutantTurkeyjust did that exactly
kb9vqfah, good, you can be trained :))
KingSphinx(yeah, still talking themes for the moment) Oddly, I find that the older KDE themes (oh-so-creatively titled "KDE 1" and "KDE 2") have a charm to their simplicity... just switched to KDE 2's look/icons. :)
MutantTurkeyhow do we mark closed? resolved...?
kb9vqfwell, that's why I kept them around
kb9vqfthey are only a few Kb in size anyway
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Resolved Fixed
MutantTurkeyokay all done
MutantTurkeyare we going to ever get bugwatch@pearsoncomputing to foreward to the ML? if you care enough
MutantTurkeyor if you even wanted to. I know I mentioned it
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kb9vqfI forgot entirely
kb9vqfI don't even want to think about that right now, but....
* kb9vqf sets a sticky note for himself
kb9vqfnot sure if we want to flood the devel list with that stuff
kb9vqfbut a new list might be good
kb9vqftrinity-bugs or something
MutantTurkeygood call
kb9vqfand maybe one more...trinity-commits
kb9vqffor when we move to GIT
MutantTurkeyI think you can do like weekly commit digests
* kb9vqf does not know how :P
kb9vqfbut that is in the future
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Can you watch for kcrash actually generating a backtrace?
MutantTurkeyI haven't had anything crash.
kb9vqffor some reason on my testing machine kcrash always comes up with "invalid backgrace"
kb9vqfand it is good that nothing crashed for you :)
MutantTurkeyI need to crash something.
kb9vqfbut I just want to make sure kcrash still works
kb9vqfmake sure you have the Trinity debug symbols and gdb installed before you try it of course :)
MutantTurkeyI probably need to go to bed actually :[
MutantTurkeywhich is really annoying because I am so excited I have trinity running!
MutantTurkeyits like 3:20am...
kb9vqfso...do you like it so far?
MutantTurkeyof course I do!
kb9vqfglad to hear it :))
MutantTurkeya few minor gripes
kb9vqffile bug reports and fix them :)
kb9vqfj/k ... well ... sort of ...
MutantTurkeywell there are plenty of bugs to work with as of now
MutantTurkeyI consider my self the bug admin ninja
MutantTurkey I am swooping down on easy to fix ones and knocking them out
MutantTurkeythe administrative work of moving bugs and checking them out. leaving the coding to you :D
MutantTurkeyI actually tried to dig into kmail and almost passed out.
MutantTurkeyI am reading through a dcop vs dbus page now
kb9vqfyeah, kinda nasty isn't it (kmail)
kb9vqfdcop is here to stay BTW
MutantTurkeyIts a very large source
kb9vqfit can do things that dbus can't
kb9vqfand dbus can do things that dcop can't
kb9vqfso they need each other
MutantTurkeyokay well actually either way I don't care
kb9vqfit's all backend stuff anyway
kb9vqfand dcop has never given me problems
kb9vqfstay away from kdepim
kb9vqfI am probably one of the only people on the planet that understand it
MutantTurkeyoh godness
MutantTurkeyI am going to stick with easier things then :)
kb9vqfyou will be happier :)
kb9vqffortunately kdepim is quite stable
kb9vqfonly a few niggling issues
MutantTurkeymy favorite thing about trinity
MutantTurkeyis that it is tried and tested of a long period of time
MutantTurkeyvery stable in that sense
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: what is kio_http?
kb9vqfit is the ioslave used to get http data
kb9vqfI believe it calls in KHTML to display it
MutantTurkeywith gnome3 failing miserably and calls for gnome2 forks, and the upcoming release, its a perfect time to fill the void
kb9vqfwhich is why I'm not futzing with Qt4
kb9vqfsince we absorbed Qt3 I see no reason to switch at this time
MutantTurkeymy hope is to eventually use trinity as my control desktop for my studio
kb9vqfQt3 has a LOT of life left in it, especially once we get off the Qt namespace
MutantTurkeywhat is the "Qt namespace"
MutantTurkeyI don't get it :P
kb9vqffirst some history :)
kb9vqfC/C++ uses symbol lookups to get the correct functions within a dhared library
MutantTurkeyKSirc is nice! well much nicer than kivrc.
kb9vqfthey look up by name
MutantTurkeyright, that is familiar
kb9vqfksirc is Trinity?
MutantTurkeyno idea. somehow i have it.
MutantTurkeyI think it must be
MutantTurkeyanyway back to Qt namesparce
kb9vqfyes it is
kb9vqfbasically, Qt3 cannot be compiled in with Qt4 in the same program for one reason alone:
kb9vqfthe symbol names would be identical, and the linker would have no idea which version to use
kb9vqfe.g. QWidget::show()
kb9vqfQt3 or Qt4?
kb9vqfdata objects
kb9vqfQWidget: which one?
MutantTurkeythats terrible
kb9vqfThat collection of classes is referred to as a namespace
MutantTurkeyso now they all use what instead?
kb9vqfwell, not exactly, but I'm saying it is :)
kb9vqfso if we use TQWidget, TQObject, etc. we can have Qt3 and Qt4 coexist perfectly
kb9vqftechnically it would then be TQt3 and Qt4 :)
kb9vqfyou could say we moved our namespace from Qt to TQt
kb9vqfno more symbol clashes
kb9vqfthat also would allow us to use pure Qt4 code where needed
kb9vqfwithin Trinity
kb9vqfe.g. :drumroll: Webkit!
MutantTurkeybut for regular users... no difference
MutantTurkeyor while compiling?
kb9vqfno difference at all, not even when compiling (except that they need to install TQt3, not Qt3)
MutantTurkeyso from the other side, the distro ecosystem
kb9vqfbut we are paving the way now with Qt3 in our GIT tree
MutantTurkeyall they need to do is pull upstream
MutantTurkeyhave you talked to any distros yet?
kb9vqfnot going to either
kb9vqfnot yet
kb9vqfas far as I'm concerned if Trinity is the last Qt3 app then we can absorb Qt3 without anyone even caring
kb9vqfthen Qt3 just becomes part of kdelibs
kb9vqfso to speak
kb9vqfand Trinity should be treated as a pure X application
kb9vqfas the only hooks lower than Qt3 are to XLib and friends
kb9vqfmake sense?
kb9vqfQt3 still can't be beat for speed
MutantTurkeyQt3 is faster than qt4 assumed
kb9vqftry it :)
MutantTurkeyI haven't seen benchmarks :P
kb9vqfit is much slower in GFX
MutantTurkeybut same goes for gtk1x and gtk2
kb9vqfpartially due to the new double buffering, etc.
kb9vqf(which can't be turned off...grr....)
kb9vqfit's a memory pig
kb9vqfthe classes are smaller, meaning more code goes into the end application
kb9vqfit's good for many smaller apps, but NOT GOOD for a full desktop IMHO
MutantTurkeyeverything new is a memory pig
MutantTurkeythough kde3 isn't exactly the most conservative :P
kb9vqfand you've seen some of the other fun with the QString to double conversions
MutantTurkeyyeah I've seen it.
kb9vqfit's an unstable mess
kb9vqflike I said, great for a lot of apps
kb9vqfbut for huge apps it's a royal pain
MutantTurkeyi mean, that's something so basic... it should even be a problem.
kb9vqfI know
kb9vqfnow figure how many similar problems there are in codepaths that aren't commonly used on mobile telephones...
kb9vqfQt3 is STABLE
kb9vqfkind of like Xlib
MutantTurkeyXlib is terrible though :P
kb9vqfYes it is
MutantTurkeyhave you seen xcb?
MutantTurkeyit's awesome
MutantTurkeyit's the new (actually like 2006ish)
MutantTurkeyX C Bindings, wayy faster.
kb9vqfno, not really
MutantTurkeyfrankly I hate the whole X11 stack
MutantTurkey i think it doesn't make sense for a desktop
kb9vqfnot sure
MutantTurkeythe server/client nature of it was good in 1985 with one mainframe.
kb9vqfespecially with the trend towards mainframes again
MutantTurkeygood point
kb9vqfBTW xcb is not always faster http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xcb/2009-February/004321.html
kb9vqfIt's one of Qt4's problems :P
MutantTurkeyI still think xlib is a PITA
kb9vqfand Qt3 abstracts us from that
kb9vqfI say stick with the tried and true for something as basic as a desktop
kb9vqfunless you don't have the features needed
kb9vqfwhich I have yet to come across
kb9vqfleave the experimentation to video games and apps that *need* that much power
kb9vqfand the risk of instability
MutantTurkeyI wish we had something like mac or windows, the video component in the kernel
MutantTurkeymany people are warey of it
kb9vqfwe're getting there
MutantTurkeyI know
kb9vqflooks good to me
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MutantTurkeykernel module x server
kb9vqfpage is down
* l0ner is watching silently
MutantTurkeyperformance is crazy better
kb9vqfactually I use the nvidia open source driver
kb9vqfworks well for me *and* I get full XRandR 1.2 support
MutantTurkeyintel has great support  luckily
MutantTurkeyi guess its because it's so simple... :P
kb9vqfIntel is very good there
MutantTurkeyno performance, but all the stability
kb9vqfhey...it runs Compiz!
kb9vqfa workhorse for business
kb9vqfactually I'd prefer that
kb9vqfonce you go to the Quadro series though NVidia is pretty good
MutantTurkeyalright almost 4am... need to sleep :P
kb9vqfme too
MutantTurkeyluckily I have the afternoon shift tomorrow. 1pm!
MutantTurkeyso still a good 8 hours of sleep
l0nerso, form whats is written on the microxwin page, it can be easily used as a replacement for x11?
MutantTurkeyl0ner: with some work
MutantTurkeyI have run it following his instructions
MutantTurkeybasically the problem is that it is a closed source kernel module
MutantTurkey(which isn't that ridiculous, seeing as we have plenty of binay driver blobs)
MutantTurkeybut the theory is there.
MutantTurkeyif only someone would make an open source version of it.
l0nerbut because of that it wont get mainstream
MutantTurkeyIf i win lottery, I am purchasing it from him.
l0nergood luck ;)
l0nerbut i have seen somewere something like that
l0nerdon't remember where tho
MutantTurkeyI am going to sleep.
l0nerg'nite ;)
MutantTurkeyI'll talk to you all tomorrow sometime actually thurdsay probably.
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l0nerit's strange, people goes tho sleep when I have just woken up
* l0ner blames(?) TMZ difference
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 487 filed by humanreadable@yahoo.com.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=487 normal, P2, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, KPDF Page Scrolling Broken When Using Keyboard
tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 485 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=485 needs packaging, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kbookreader needs packaging
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 488 filed by remibouhl@gmail.com.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=488 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kolourpaint, okular (maybe others) are frozen by defuncted SSHFS mount.
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 489 filed by raevynsrequiem@gmail.com.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=489 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Pidgin Fails to launch
tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 489 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 484 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=484 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Qt3 needs patching to build under ARM
tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 253 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=253 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Radio buttons and check boxes  do not display properly when toggled
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 408 from kdeutils to debian.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=408 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Conflict, when install basket from KDE4 and from trinity in debian squeeze
tbottu10robxu9@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 459 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=459 blocker, P1, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Detecting $KDEHOME to avoid conflicts with KDE3 and KDE4
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 490 filed by sh4dou@gmail.com.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=490 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, adding support for PulseAudio application volume control
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 491 filed by sh4dou@gmail.com.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=491 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Desktop panel auto length
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 229 from REOPENED to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=229 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, include kickoff menu with trinity
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 492 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=492 blocker, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kdmctl cannot parse active sessions
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KingSphinxI'm running update-manager to upgrade Trinity to 11.04, but I have a few concerns before I start the upgrade...
KingSphinxkde-guidance-kde3, kde-guidance-powermanager-kde3, openoffice.org-kde3, guidance-backends-kde3 and python-kde3-kde3 want to be removed. Are any of these essential?
PikiKingSphinx: i don't use ubuntu, so i can't help, but if nobody answers soon, the best thing to do would be to back up your data before upgrading
KingSphinxThat's fine, I can wait for someone to help. Plus my /home's on a separate partition, so I can just reinstall if something goes wrong.
Pikithe best suggestion i have there is to see if there are tde equivalents. openoffice.org-kde and python-kde3 shouldn't be needed, those are just extensions, and powermanager should only be needed for laptops or changing cpu frequencies if the cpu supports that
Pikinot sure about the others
Xu_Rhey Piki, KingSphinx
Xu_RKingSphinx: only up to 11.04 if you want to use nightly builds... heh... heh... d:
Xu_Rlooks like tbottu is working again... after a momentarily spaz in bug reports...
kb9vqfthose were all the bug reports that were queued up
kb9vqfI didn't realize the but watch account was blocked until last night :-/
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: hey, I just noticed something
Xu_Rah, damnit, I missed
Xu_RI feel happy for openSUSE now :D
KingSphinxWhy? Did Trinity get ported to it?
Xu_Rwell, KDE3 is back in the main distribution (aka, again supported)
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Xu_RI'm the one that's supposed to be porting it to SuSE, so I better work fast XD
* Xu_R notes however that real-life work is catching up with him...
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MTkb9vqf: hey
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MTis bug 365 valid?
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=365 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, GPG Key and Repositories not Accessible
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KingSphinxWell, Unity installed without much trouble. Only major issue seems to be that the Ubuntu Software Center doesn't seem to want to install stuff; apt-get is a workaround though.
MTI dont like Ubuntu
MTthey have like 150000 ways to access packaging
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KingSphinx"If one breaks, there's another way to get around it" is how I see it
mutantturkeykb9vqf: I also closed bug 322
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=322 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kdegraphics build warnings
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mutantturkeyyeah... arch has one that never breaks :D
KingSphinxJust curious... are you using Trinity in Arch? Didn't think there was an "official" build for that yet...
mutantturkeyI am working on it. progress has slowed.
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KingSphinxGreat... I have no sound at all. Not even in Trinity now.
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backwoodsmananyone awake?
backwoodsmananyone know if the Maverick install instructions will work on Natty?
mutantturkeyI think on the hone page there is a news bulletin about natty
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KingSphinxAlright, got my sound back... at least for now. :)
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MutantTurkeysaw a trinity mention on reddit yesterday
MutantTurkeythe one complaint: debian only
MutantTurkeyso geting more distros on it would be great in terms of opening it up
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MTurkeykb9vqf: did you see why
MTurkeywhat I said yesterday
MTurkeyI LT was about a bug
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l0nerJust an idea: could someone add informations that compilation of qt3 from your git is required to compile tqt? and how-to would be nice too.
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: I can't push to tde-packaging
Xu_Rerror: no DAV locking support
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MutantTurkeywhat's up?
kb9vqfXu_R: How did you check out that repository?
kb9vqfsounds like you used the wrong URL
Xu_Rkb9vqf: nope, used the right URL
kb9vqfwhich was?
Xu_Rerror: no DAV locking support on http://rxu@scm.trinitydesktop.org/scm/git/tde-packaging/
Xu_Rfatal: git-http-push failed
Xu_Ror... i'm sure that's the right url ^^"
kb9vqfI just committed some stuff of my own earlier today
kb9vqfso it *should* be working
kb9vqfI assume you are doing "git push origin master"?
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: just letting you know I'll be gone till sunday. but in case the world ends or anything I have email where i'm at
kb9vqfXu_R: Does it ask for a password then fail, or does it fail before the password?
Xu_Rasks for a password twice then fails
kb9vqfsounds like a wrong password
Xu_Rpretty sure it isn't...
kb9vqfwell it works for me...
kb9vqfcan you check out a new copy with the same password?
Xu_Ryea, that same password works
kb9vqfvery odd
kb9vqflet me try checking something in
kb9vqfXu_R: Works for me :-/
Xu_RI'll try again :-\
kb9vqfXu_R You don't have write access
kb9vqfdid you cange your password yet?
Xu_RI changed my password already...
kb9vqfI never granted you access
kb9vqfbecause I didn't know it had been changed yet
kb9vqfthe default is not secure...
kb9vqfXu_R: Fixed :)
kb9vqfdon't you hate git's obscure error messages though?
Xu_Rguess so :-\
Xu_Rbut a google search came a bit closer :P
Xu_Rpushed some stuff :D
kb9vqflooking good...though I admit I don't know much about the RPM build process ;-)
Xu_Rhehe ;P and I admit I have no clue about debian packaging
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: do you think it's ok if I start naming packages like tde-kdelibs instead of kdelibs3 or kdelibs-trinity?
kb9vqfhow about tdelibs
kb9vqfthe -trinity extension in Ubuntu/Debian is legacy ;-)
Xu_Rjust start replacing kde with tde now?
kb9vqfgo ahead since you are starting anew
Xu_Rah, ok. because I was thinking that might not be what you would like :)
kb9vqfDebian/Ubuntu is a bit trickier because of the relatively long history
kb9vqfpeople are used to searching for *-trinity
kb9vqfor *-kde3
Xu_Rah, true
kb9vqfI don't want to keep "kde" in the names if we don't have to
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 322 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
kb9vqfgrr, bugwatch stalled again
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=322 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kdegraphics build warnings
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 493 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=493 needs packaging, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kkbswitch needs packaging
Xu_Rtbottu doesn't like bugwatch very much...
tbottuXu_R: Error: "doesn't" is not a valid command.
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tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 100 from UNCONFIRMED to NEEDINFO.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=100 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEEDINFO, Keyboard layout switcher does not work
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mturkeyhey there
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sinedeviancehi all! i was wondering if any of you know how large trinity-desktop is installed?
sinedeviancei am asking because i have a debian server that i have installed it onto. my / partition only has the base system, mysql/apache2/php, htop, and trinity-desktop installed, but for some reason my partition is showing 4.5gb of usage. this seems really strange
sinedevianceif nobody knows, can you tell me how to completely remove trinity-desktop so i can check my partition size after removal and then reinstall?
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kb9vqfXu_R|ZNC: can you take a look at Bug 100 if you have time?
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=100 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEEDINFO, Keyboard layout switcher does not work
kb9vqfit sounds simple enough to fix
kb9vqf(though I would definitely verify that it is still present in the latest SVN before working on it)
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 494 filed by nick@leverton.org.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=494 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, nspluginviewer fix in r1224648 fails with Adobe flash 10.3 and flash 11beta
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 495 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=495 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, add DSL support in knetworkmanager
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Xu_Rhey MutantTurkey
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MutantTurkeyhey just got back
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Xu_R!seen kb9vqf
tbottuXu_R: kb9vqf was last seen in #trinity-desktop 1 day, 12 hours, 4 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <kb9vqf> (though I would definitely verify that it is still present in the latest SVN before working on it)
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AristideHi ! ^^
AristideDo you have a repositories for SUSE ?
Xu_Rnot yet D:
* Xu_R is working on his spare time to bring them to SuSE
AristideOk :)
Xu_RI suggest you use KDE:KDE3 for now though.
Xu_R(or XFCE ;P)
AristideKDE:KDE3 ...
AristideXu_R: So, can i install KDE3 without uninstall KDE4 ?
Xu_RAristide: yes. Both can be installed side by side
AristideYES !
AristideI go try to install it o/
Xu_RThere's still an active opensuse-kde3 mailing list~~
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tbottu10ogldelphi@mail.ru changed the Status on bug 42 from NEEDINFO to CONFIRMED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=42 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, CONFIRMED, gtk-qt-engine-kde3 does not work properly
tbottu10ogldelphi@mail.ru changed the Status on bug 429 from NEEDINFO to UNCONFIRMED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=429 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Kicker crashes because of Esc key
tbottu10ogldelphi@mail.ru changed the Status on bug 429 from UNCONFIRMED to NEEDINFO.
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MutantTurkeyhey all
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tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 492 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=492 blocker, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kdmctl cannot parse active sessions
ab__you guys are awesome
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Xu_R!seen kb9vqf
tbottuXu_R: kb9vqf was last seen in #trinity-desktop 2 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <kb9vqf> (though I would definitely verify that it is still present in the latest SVN before working on it)
Xu_Rdarn it, where is he...
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l0nerXu_R: No prob ;)
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Xu_Rl0ner: :D
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 496 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=496 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, knetworkmanager-trinity 3.5.12 doesn't work with TDE 3.5.13
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: saw your page on the etherpad about converting to nightly builds
Xu_RMutantTurkey: nice
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: also i email tim with an updated relatedproject.php
MutantTurkeyadded qt3 into it
MutantTurkeyis that good you thjink?
Xu_Rprobably a good idea, since we became upstream...
MutantTurkeysupossedly :P
tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 496 from NEW to RESOLVED INVALID.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=496 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED INVALID, knetworkmanager-trinity 3.5.12 doesn't work with TDE 3.5.13
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Space_Manwhat is best distro to use that is up to date and uses fglrx?
Space_Manor has an easy method to install fglrx?
Xu_Rubuntu + derivatives, or maybe ATi's repo for openSUSE... iouno truthfully. my ATi card is on windows ;P
Space_ManI was thinking about ubuntu, but how do you install the latest version (11.04) with trinity?
Space_Manmint debian is another option
Xu_Ruse maverick builds for now, unless you want to use nightly ;P
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strangelv:: had dependancy problems trying to install TDE Meerkat packages to a Natty USB drive
strangelvSo I'm not suer if Meekrkat packages work with Natty right now
strangelv"This was al/slo sthe 32 bit version, which I don't normally use
* strangelv 's subnotebook/netbook has a 32 bit Centaur CPU
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Xu_Rstrangelv: really? D:
Xu_Ryou wanna try nightly? it's pretty broken, and there's no meta packages, but it's worth a shot if you know what to install ;P
strangelv"I might try that sometime, although it was mostly an expecriment.  The amin thing I needed to do was reset my clock to before 2002 so fsck wouldn't freak out and prevent mounting of any HD partitions
strangelv"I set it to 2 January 1970
strangelv"Up and running right now; may need to repat the exercise if the CMOS doesn't keep enough of a charge.  Teed ot buyp a new battery for it.
* strangelv is too close to falling asleep to ask forl directions for nightly
strangelv"My new hardware problem is a monitor that doesn't seem to work with anything newer than Jaunty
Xu_Rgo to sleep, figure it out in the morning.
strangelvIt's always been delicat eand prone to showing me a screen consitting of a red rectangle with OUT OF RANGE in screaming capitals
strangelv"I tried installing Meerkat server, and it goes out of range on text.  Linux always changes the text mode a couple of seconds into initialization.  That text mode change sends it out of bounds
strangelv"Basically, it's completely unusable as a bench display
* strangelv 's effort to get back up to speed in Python with a wiki page cerating script at least is going okay, not that he's aware of anything that TDE needs scripted in Python
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Xu_Rhello Piki
Pikihi Xu_R
Xu_Ranything new?
Pikitrying to see if BQ is alive. she's apparently online, just not in any channels according to her /whois
Xu_Rwell, she's been busy lately
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Pikithat was dumb :-(
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Xu_Raccidental exiting?
PikiXu_R: incorrect comman, typed /quit instead of /part
Pikiso konversation stayed open, but i d/ced from freenode
Xu_RI know what /quit is xP
Pikisome clients actually quit instead of just d/cing :-)
Xu_Ri know, but I'm talking standard behavior :P
Xu_Rhave you started packaging Trinity for ark?
Pikii'm waiting for bero to put out an iso with recent packages included
Pikimanually upgrading packages via command line seems to be causing a lot of issues for me
Pikiand AFAIK bero hasn't fixed zypper/apt-rpm
Xu_RPiki: you don't need to test the spec files right away - just write them out based on the old ones
Xu_Ryou can test them when a new iso comes out
Pikii know, i prefer to do the packages when i do the specs
Pikii don't know why, just feels more comfortable for my work flow
Xu_RPiki: yea... I know how it feels, but it's going to be a time waster... easier to take the old srpms, unrpm them, mod the spec, and then test later
Pikiwe've wasted a lot of time already, and it's looking like we're not releasing any time soon :-)
Xu_Rwhere did you get that?
Xu_Rwe're only stuck on bug fixing?
Pikii'm talking ark
Xu_Rah, ark.
Pikiwe used to do a release every year, our last release was in 2008, and bero's taking his time with the new iso
Xu_RI may have a solution to ark's rpm problem (thanks, jbj) but from therein I don't know.
Pikirpm works fine in ark, we just need to either a) setup apt-rpm5, or b) finish porting zypper to rpm5
Xu_Roh, oops. s/rpm/zypper
Pikithe problem i'm having with manually upgrading is a bad package from bero
PikiXu_R: hmm?
Xu_RI meant I have a solution to libzypp/libsatsolver/zypper...
Xu_R(courtesy of Yacto/Poky Linux)
Xu_RPiki: oh, and btw, we migrated SVN.td to GIT.td
Xu_RPiki: git.trinitydesktop.org
* Xu_R guesses you already knew that anyway
PikiXu_R: you can email the solution to bero@arklinux.org, he seems to have fixed the mail server to forward to the correct email
Pikino, i didn't know
Xu_RPiki: I know his email address, just need to make sure he's actually there ;P
Pikihaven't been paying much attention lately, haven't spent as much time as usual at the computer (no reason, really, just been stressed out lately)
PikiXu_R: his email wasn't working, it existed on arklinux.org and the mail server works correctly, but he was having it forward to his work email, which he had to change when he got his new job, and it works now
Xu_RPiki: I knew about it. I know he email address has been working for a while now - I emailed him last month or so and he responded right away.
Xu_Rit's bero@arklinux.ch
Pikithat too
Pikii normally send it to .org, but the mail server can use both .org and .ch
Pikiwas my version control access migrated from svn to git
Xu_RPiki: no, you need a new account
Xu_RPiki: in addition, no data was kept on the migration
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PikiXu_R: no biggie, i didn't upload anything important
Pikii guess i need to email tim?
Pikiemail sent
Pikibeing that i'm new to git, i need to ask, would the command be "git clone something"?
Pikifor a checkout?
Xu_Rwell, yes
Xu_Rexcept GIT doesn't do checkouts, it's cloning
Xu_Rbecause GIT essentially downloads the whole repo to your folder
Pikiwhat's the clone url for tde-packaging?
Xu_Ryou'll get it with your account info
Xu_Rbecause your clone url needs to have your username in it
Pikihow do i commit?
Xu_Ryou know what, let me just put a readme file at the root of the repo so that it's easy to get adjusted
Xu_RPiki: I made the README, it should show up
Xu_Ryup, it showed up now
Pikijust read it, i'll probably be referring to it a lot until i get used to git :-)
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Xu_Rit's really not that different
Xu_Rdamnit. hold on, restarting XChat
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Pikiok O.o
* Xu_R actually restarted XChat - ZNC just keeps me online
Pikinever heard of it
Xu_Rznc, bnc, etc... let's you exit your client but keeps you connected and logs while you're not connected
Pikiis it like where i have a desktop running an irc client with my nick connected, then i can, e.g. use my laptop to connect to the desktop via my local router and attach the client on my laptop to the irc connection already on the desktop?
Xu_RPiki: yea. you can have no clients or you can 10 clients
Xu_Ryou'll still be logged in
Pikii've also heard of people running a client like irssi in a screen session to remain connected, and they can detach from screen whenever they're leaving the computer
Xu_Ryea, that's possible.
arXu_R: all you can the the better thing and run irssi in tmux/screen
Xu_Rar: I already have ZNC set up, and it served me well, especially in china, where you can't use ssh.
Xu_RI'll stick with my ZNC ^^
arXu_R: you can't?
arthat's interesting
Xu_Rar: nope. cryptography like ssh is banned in china. the biggest PITA ever.
Xu_Rclosest thing to that is webssh, and that is pretty terrible. most websshs are blocked by the great firewall, too.
ari'm running my own "webssh" on my own server
Pikiwebssh is just ssh through a web browser, still cryptography :-)
Xu_Rar: if only (i didn't have a freaking DSL connection)
Xu_RPiki: easier than getting portblocked from everywhere. damn ISP.
PikiXu_R: i need to use webssh and webchat at the local community college, they like knowing exactly what we're doing :-)
Pikiif only i could use an ssh tunnel from behind their firewall :-(
Pikibut port 22 is blocked, and i'm pretty sure they block the port i use for ssh on my server
Xu_Rok, let me try this again. they blocked freenode in china. they blocked ssh ports. they can detect VPN connections and kill them.
ari also have a nice hack on my server
arif i hit a special url via https, the next connection from my current ip gets passed to openvpn instead of httpd
Xu_Rar: wow, nice
arnothing special. just a simple cgi script with extra permisions and a bit of iptables magic
Xu_Rnot bad.
arhad an idea about actually making it a proper webapp with "special urls" being usable only once and randomly generated
arbut, as always, time's an issue
Xu_Ralways is
Xu_Rdetach #opensuse-buildservice
Xu_Reek, oops.
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Xu_Rscheduled a bug day (august meeting) for next tuesday
Xu_Rthis was long overdue.
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Qu4ZHm... are there any plans to fix konqueror's file browsing ability? It used to be half decent, now it's decidedly sub-par. Which is a shame, 'cause it's an awesome program.
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Xu_Rwhy hello thar people
Space_Manhi Piki, Xu_R
Xu_Rhey Space_Man
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strangelvQu4Z: what seems to be broken?
strangelv"...and what are you running
strangelv:: isn't have thourble, but he's still running Meerkat TDE Kubuntu
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 497 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=497 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, run dialog enhancement
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: ilya said he has patches for hal?
MutantTurkeythats aweome
Xu_RMutantTurkey: he claims that.
Xu_Rbut I haven't seen anything to indicate that
Xu_Rin fact, he was asking about reincluding HAL into factory, so I think he's just making that up in the end.
* Xu_R notes that I may have missed something
Xu_Ryea, Ilya seems to be bragging.
Xu_RThe closest I can come to what he says is some udev rules about automounting
Xu_R(and that has nothing to do with integration with KDE3)
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KingSphinxAssuming packages aren't ready in time for Ocelot, will upgrading to 11.10 be the same situation as the 10.10-11.04 deal or will additonal steps need to be taken?
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 498 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=498 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, moreblue-orbit-moodin doesn't look correct on widescreen
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 499 filed by nick@leverton.org.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=499 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Knotes resizing corner doesn't always activate on focus
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tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 499 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=499 minor, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Knotes resizing corner doesn't always activate on focus
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Space_Manwoo hoo, I'm now using trinity 3.5.12 but what has happened to knemo and kdegames?
Space_Maninstalled kubuntu 10.10 and then upgraded to 11.04
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 500 filed by kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=500 needs packaging, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Add window docking application to Trinity
tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 501 filed by e_r_i_c@gmx.net.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=501 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Sylpheed 3.0.2 crashes on saving an attachment
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 502 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=502 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, backport dolphin kde4 "show some pics from a directory on folder icon" feature
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MutantTurkeyjumpship: I put down 20
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cpatrick08sorry about that printscreen was putting alot of screens out
cpatrick08i love this os so much good job
jumpshipYeah, it's nice to see someone take this on, these guys are gods in my book
cpatrick08now if somebody could fork gnome 2 then both gnome 3 and kde 4 haters would be happy
Qu4ZMentioning Gnome in a kde channel... you're trading on dangerous ground :P
jumpshipI think the Gnome2 crowd might be happy with XFCE, I didn't care for either, but XFCE seemed pretty similar to Gnome2 (or at least on it's way there)
Qu4ZBut you're right. What is it with DE developers and suddenly going off and doing their own completely useless thing :/
cpatrick08it looks like it is for tablets just like unity looks like it is for tablets also
jumpshipbut without Trinity I'd have been left in the cold when Debian moved to KDE4
Qu4ZTablets are overrated
jumpshipI think they got bored
cpatrick08yea Tablets are overrated
Qu4ZI'd buy one if it came with a wallmount and a dvi port and I could use it as an extra monitor for my desktop, though :P
jumpshipI'm only interested when a cell or similar service lets me connect it live to my desktop
cpatrick08the only touch thing i like is the ipod touch
Qu4ZI dunno. I think if I could use it as a monitor most of the time, sync files to it wirelessly, and then take it with me when I left I'd be vaguely interested.
jumpshiplike a mobile thin client
Qu4Zjumpship: My concern there would be latency
Qu4ZUnresponsive interfaces are a PITA
jumpshipsure, the tech isn't there yet, and the services seem to be moving to wrong way
Qu4ZYeah, if it were responsive, that'd be awesome.
cpatrick08that is true
jumpshipeven being able to do it over wifi around the house would be nice, but the price is too high for what I want right now
cpatrick08yea tablets do cost alot
Qu4ZWell, if it were usable as a monitor the rest of the time that'd offset the cost a bit for me, I think.
Qu4ZBut yes, they're friggin' expensive.
jumpshipI'd really like a modular mobile setup, sorta like how open a desktop is, but portable
jumpshipI would spend the money on a tablet if I could find one with a line in for audio, for less than $400, but I havn't see one yet
cpatrick08the Coby Kyros MID7015 7-Inch Android has that for less than $200 http://www.amazon.com/Coby-MID7015-Android-Internet-Touchscreen/dp/B0047Q9GT4
cpatrick08it has a hdmi slot and a usb 2.0 slot
Qu4ZI really want to just take a subset of my PC with me :P
Qu4ZLike, the keyboard, and a screen. Plug them together, and ... TADA
jumpshipI see those, that would be nice, but I didn't see a line in, my goal would be to use linux with jack on top, I think it would be cool to use it as a dsp
jumpshipwouldn't vnc or rdp let you use it as a second monitor, I seem to remember a system for using a second computer to drive a second monitor, don't know how well it would work, but sounds like fun to try
cpatrick08i am running trinity on the maverick and i was wonderig if anybody has tried it on squeeze if so is it better than the ubuntu tde
jumpshipI use squeeze, I havn't tried Ubuntu, but I think Ubuntu is what the developers use
cpatrick08ok you like it i was thinking bout switching from  ubuntu to squeeze tde
jumpshipIt's hard to say, they are very similar, I like Debian, but I've had a few little problems I suspect are because the developers use Ubuntu, for example Ubuntu uses sudo and Debian uses su, you can use either with both I guess
jumpshipThe current bug of the week is a good example of the problems I've seen
cpatrick08yea so what problems do you face jumpship
jumpshipI switched to using sudo instead of su to avoid the bug, other than that I can't remember exactly, I don't know that TDE is really any different in either
cpatrick08yea but i herd the debian base is more stable than the ubuntu base
jumpshipI guess it depends on what you mean by stable, as in not changing or not crashing
cpatrick08less bugs
jumpshipI really couldn't say about ubuntu, but Squeeze has been very good to me
jumpshipYou might try the mailing list, noone seems to be in here today
cpatrick08gotta go ttyl
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 503 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=503 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kmix wont autostart
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Kodo_i've just installed trinity desktop, and run into a problem..
Kodo_i try to mount a home where i've used kde 3.5.10; i have already found out that i had to rename .kde to .trinity
Kodo_but still, i can't seem to access my Desktop folder in the appropriate way
Kodo_my home-folder is shown on my desktop
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 504 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=504 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, [PaperCut] search kickoff menu bug/enhancement
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: dude...
MutantTurkeythis is ridiculous
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MutantTurkeyXu_R: so the kicker bug i will marked closed
MutantTurkeyif i can find it...
Xu_RMutantTurkey: srry for delay, have to go out now
* Xu_R was just scrambling around for something
MutantTurkeyexcept band just got here :P
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KingSphinxAny idea what's going to happen when Ubuntu rolls over to GTK3? Will QtCurve take care of themeing GTK apps or is there something else that needs to be done?
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kb9vqfHi all
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kb9vqfXu_R: http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=tree&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment&hb=HEAD&f=main/thirdparty/libreoffice/3.3.2/patches
kb9vqfNot TQt converted yet, but functional with LibreOffice
kb9vqfIt took a LONG time to get that to work
kb9vqfthe OOO/LibreOffice build system is a royal pain
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zacariois it possible to display a search bar in konqueror?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: nice :D
kb9vqfXu_R: When is the bug day anyway?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: it was supposed to be today...
kb9vqfgreat :(
kb9vqfare you still stuck on arts?
kb9vqfXu_R: ^^^
Xu_Rkb9vqf: yea :-\
kb9vqfXu_R: Look at the CMake D options here: http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment%20Packaging&h=7be8b00579ccf2169b9c4df673baa4962bc190e4&hb=HEAD&f=ubuntu/maverick/dependencies/arts/debian/rules
kb9vqf(the line beginning with DEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS)
kb9vqfsee what is different in your build
Xu_Rok, will look
kb9vqflet me know if you see anything different
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: I put a lot more flags, but it should have had the same effect... I think I need to look for a missing dependency...
kb9vqfXu_R: Can you pastebin the failure again?
kb9vqfnote that I need the entire build log
Xu_Rkb9vqf: http://slexy.org/view/s21O10uz5j
tbottu10kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.net changed the Status on bug 503 from NEW to NEEDINFO.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=503 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEEDINFO, kmix wont autostart
kb9vqfXu_R: Can I see this patch: arts-vorbis-fix.dif
kb9vqfXu_R: Can you send me the CMake cache from that build?
kb9vqfSpecifically I want to know what VORBISFILE_LIBRARIES was set to
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I'm currently running that same build again (no changes), so I'll be able to give you a fresh cache...
kb9vqfXu_R: I assume you did pull the latest SVN before rebuilding though?
kb9vqfok, good
kb9vqfmy hunch is that -lvorbisfile is not being passed to the gsl linker
kb9vqfbut I will see shortly
Xu_Rhmm... I can confirm I have all the dependencies needed to link vorbis. so it's not a dependency problem
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I hope you didn't mind that I put README.GIT at the root of tde-packaging ^_^"
kb9vqfjust a copy of the one in tde?
kb9vqfthat's fine
kb9vqfXu_R: Can I see the cache files?
Xu_Rright on time, the build just failed exactly as you sent me that message
Xu_Rgetting the files
kb9vqfXu_R: Can you try this: In arts/flow/gsl/CMakeLists.txt try adding ${VORBIS_LIBRARIES} right after ${VORBISFILE_LIBRARIES} (make sure there is a space between the two ${..} ${..} structures)
kb9vqfthen rebuild
kb9vqfit might not do anything but it's worth a shot
Xu_Rok, rebuilding
Xu_Rkb9vqf: and btw, the README.GIT in tde-packaging isn't the same as in tde ^_^" lol, didn't know there was one in tde :P
Xu_Rah, ok... mine was more of just all the commands you would need to use ;P
kb9vqfwhich one do you like better?
Xu_RI was just thinking of merging the two - both of them are good
kb9vqfmerge them in tde-packaging
kb9vqfI'll look over the result and make final changes before putting it in tde
kb9vqfhow is the build?
Xu_Rstill building
kb9vqfis that a good sign?
kb9vqfi.e. would it have failed before now?
Xu_Rno, because it hasn't gotten up to that part yet
kb9vqfyour build log isn't very useful TBH
kb9vqfdebian will say "leaving directory xxx" when the build fails
kb9vqfyours does not :(
kb9vqfwhere xxx is the directory containing the failing library build
Xu_Rit doesn't?
Xu_Rstrange, I thought it does...
Xu_Rkb9vqf: I can confirm that fix does work
kb9vqfGreat! :))
kb9vqfI'm going to dinner; poke me a bit later so that I can upload it to SVN
kb9vqfXu_R: Fixed in SVN revision 1248403
Xu_Rkb9vqf: thanks ^_^
kb9vqfI assume this will help with your RPM builds ;-)
Xu_Rof course ;)
Xu_Rwonderful, arts finished building :D
kb9vqfpoke me if you have any other problems
Xu_Rkb9vqf: and I revised README.GIT :) http://git.trinitydesktop.org/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=Trinity%20Desktop%20Environment%20Packaging&h=65c5312e3ec11db32bdc8b90c1da47ca3b12c9cc&hb=6507e11446a26cf7882ecc8658e505b6adce8e61&f=README.GIT
* Xu_R just spotted a typo - oops.
* Xu_R goes to fix that typo ;)
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* strangelv reads an emoil that there was a meeting 46 minutes ago.
kb9vqfXu_R: Did I manage to miss the meeting?
kb9vqfI thought it was Tuesday
Xu_RI guess I'll push it to Tuesday then.
Xu_RIt was supposed to be today
Xu_Rbug day + meeting
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kb9vqfsorry about that
kb9vqfour dev team seems to be falling apart
kb9vqfoh well
kb9vqfwe may just end up using the nightly builds for a while
kb9vqfin the absence of bug fixes I can't release 3.5.13
Xu_Rtrue. MutantTurkey managed to get some bugs closed, and I'm not seeing anything that would block Trinity on my 11.04 except kdesudo :-|
kb9vqfhow is kdesudo now?
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kb9vqfit was rebuilt in the past few days
kb9vqfodd--I didn't see any code from MutantTurkey :-/
kb9vqfso they must have been invalid reports
Xu_Rkb9vqf: kdesudo is still not working D':
Xu_Rkb9vqf: probably.
kb9vqfI'll look into it
kb9vqfYou keep working on the RPM packages
kb9vqfwe need those ASAP
kb9vqfso that OpenSUSE can throw some of its developers our way ;-)
kb9vqfXu_R: Which version of kdesudo do you have installed?
Xu_Rlatest - from today's updates...
Xu_R(I updated today)
kb9vqfXu_R: what exactly happens?
kb9vqfthe reason I ask is it works fine here (!?!??)
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: really? it still does nothing on my end
Xu_Rsame errors
MutantTurkeyband just left
kb9vqfXu_R: Which version?
kb9vqfdpkg -l | grep kdesudo
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: also, what is /opt/trinity/lib/libgsl.a considered? a devel file?
kb9vqfit's a static library
kb9vqfon Ubuntu that's a development file
Xu_Rhm... ok
Xu_Rdoes arts require it to function?
* Xu_R also wonders if arts can be built without making a static library
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Xu_Rwoah o_o updating nightly again did something nice to my desktop
Xu_Rcreated lots of duplicate icons
Xu_Rthat I can't get rid of...
Xu_Rthis calls for a restart of the computer! and a hope that kdesudo works again
Xu_Rb/c I just did a full reinstall of it
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kb9vqfXu_R: A restart will clear it
kb9vqfthe icons that is
Xu_Ryup - restarted
Xu_Rkdesudo works
Xu_Rexcept calling kdesudo and nothing else still gives an error
kb9vqfby itself you mean?
kb9vqfjust 'kdesudo' ?
kb9vqfthat gives an error here too
kb9vqfa hang up technically
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: yes
kb9vqfXu_R: Fixed in SVN revision 1248417
Xu_Rnow time to test ;)
kb9vqfit won't be build for a while
kb9vqfbut you can cherry-pick the patch
kb9vqffrom SVN
Xu_RI'll wait for the builds, there might be other goodies :)
kb9vqfI actually have a bit in the pipeline right now :-P
kb9vqfthe final move from kde3 to trinity
kb9vqfliterally replacing the string 'kde3' with 'trinity'
kb9vqfthere is one more that needs to be done sometime
kb9vqfreplacing the string 'KDE3' with 'Trinity'
kb9vqfthat's a bit nastier
kb9vqfbut I did it in the Debian/Ubuntu packaging :)(
kb9vqfjust not in the Trinity source itself
kb9vqfanyway builds could take a couple days
Xu_Rit'll make the Trinity stand out and the KDE3 begone ^__^
kb9vqfand also fix the problems with adept and a handful of other apps that retained "kde3" in their innards
kb9vqfoh, and there won't be /opt/trinity/lib/kde3 anymore
kb9vqfonly /opt/trinity/lib/trinity
kb9vqfbut as I said...that's a big build batch...
kb9vqfit could fail....
kb9vqfand take a few days
Xu_Rhopefully not
* kb9vqf crosses fingers
Xu_RI already replaced every "kde3" in packaging into "tde", so I might be a first-look
kb9vqfkeep working on getting preliminary RPM builds
Xu_Ryes... I need those.
kb9vqfdon't worry too much about which files go where
kb9vqfjust get something working
kb9vqfthen it can be tweaked later
* Xu_R notes that Ilya has been getting a bit noisier lately...
kb9vqfand it's up to you to silence him with shiny new packages :)
kb9vqfAlthough I note that every time I ask him for a patch he shuts up for a while
kb9vqfand I never get the patch :-/
Xu_Rthe udev "patch"? it was a bluff, truthfully.
Xu_Rit's actually a udev automount event
kb9vqfwell I wasn't far off with the "troll" bit then
Xu_Rthat has nothing to do with integration :-\
Xu_Ryes, I noticed he was asking about udev rules and automounting in opensuse Factory mailing list
Xu_Rconnected the two :-|
kb9vqfSomeone needs to build this http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/KPowerAPI
kb9vqfI'm not going to hack yet another hardware access library just to have the underlying specs change again
kb9vqfif it's done it will be done RIGHT
kb9vqfuntil then HAL will remain just a prereq
kb9vqf*just remain
Xu_Rgood idea...
kb9vqfreally, there's nothing wrong with HAL
kb9vqfthere never was
kb9vqfit just didn't extend very well or something
kb9vqfbut Trinity doesn't use those new features...so...
kb9vqfwe can sit on HAL for a while IMHO
Xu_RHAL is still usable, so it's fine.
kb9vqfand there are more pressing concerns
kb9vqflike getting the *bugs fixed* and the next release out the door... :))
Xu_Ra point very emphasized ;)
kb9vqf(I'm considering the lack of RPM support a bug right now)
kb9vqfget the core system working at the very least
kb9vqfthat is, the kde* modules
kb9vqfand a handful of the apps
kb9vqfamarok, kpowersave, etc.
kb9vqfenough to get Ilya or others on board and they can help out with the rest
kb9vqfMy time will be limited very shortly
Xu_Rtime to speed up packaging...
Xu_Rah, even more important then.
kb9vqfso I will have to leave the project alone for a while
kb9vqfHence the big push to get remaining problems fixed
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: hm... looks like Ilya may have tried to do automounting without hal via mtab instead of udev rules
Xu_Rkb9vqf: http://slexy.org/view/s2NtukzskF
Xu_Rand now off to bed - night
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 505 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=505 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kgtk-qt3 3.5.13 nightly can't be used
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delightIs trinity installable next to a kde4 installation ? e.g. does it use a .kde-trinity ? what about commands like konsole, konqueror etc. that are available in both versions
kb9vqfdelight: Yes, you can install Trinity alongside KDE4
kb9vqfit does use its own ~/.kde3 or ~/.trinity folder (depending on the version you install)
kb9vqfTrinity will always launch its version of an application if it is available
kb9vqfotherwise it will fall back to the KDE4 version
kb9vqfLikewise, KDE4 will always launch its version of an application
delightkb9vqf: thnx for the info ... sounds nice ... what about if you use the shell ?
delightbash .. .command line
kb9vqffrom within a trinity session the above is true
kb9vqfif you use the shell outside a Trinity session then only the KDE4 versions of the apps are available
delightsay you are on the shell and want to call something like "kate sometext.txt"
kb9vqfthat will work
kb9vqfIf you are logged into a Trinity session, then it will load the Trinity version of kate with "sometext.txt" opened
kb9vqfif not, it will load the KDE4 version of Kate
delightsounds great ... I'll give it a shot on my debian box ;) ... got natty on my laptop ...
kb9vqfOK :)
delightthnx for the infos
kb9vqflet us know if you run into problems
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delightkb9vqf: a last one ... is trinity comming with amarok 1.4.x ?
kb9vqfwe maintain it actually
kb9vqfnothing else like it out there :)
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Pikiany android users?
Xu_Rkb9vqf: started on tdebase
Xu_Rbut I'm not going to have much time this week
Xu_Rit's the week before school X_X
kb9vqfXu_R: OK
kb9vqfI take it arts/kdelibs are working?
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Xu_Rkb9vqf: hmm... on kde3 (and by extension, kde4) configure options, there is a --with-distribution or a -DKDE_DISTRIBUTION option to specify a distribution name...
Xu_Ranything like that for trinity?
kb9vqfwell, I was pretty sure, hang on
kb9vqfit used to exist in automake
kb9vqfXu_R It used to be "--with-distribution="Kubuntu (`lsb_release --codename --short`)" in Autotools
kb9vqfI don't know if that feature was ported to CMake
Xu_Rhmm... looking at CMakeLists.txt, it wasn't.
kb9vqfwell, feel free to port it and send me a patch :-P
Xu_Rok, when time comes around
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simcop2387has anyone tried getting kdirstat working with trinity desktop?
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kb9vqfsimcop2387: kdirstat is in our archive
simcop2387cool, i've had a hell of a time keeping a statically built copy of it around and working.  there's nothing else like it and i couldn't get it ported up to kde4/qt4 to keep it otherwise
kb9vqfQt4 is pretty limiting
kb9vqfwe have tried to absorb as many KDE3 apps as possible
kb9vqfthere are many out there that only have equivalents under Windows or Mac
simcop2387i'm mostly after a bastard hybrid of kde3/kde4 these days.  i've grown to really like kwin4 and a few other kde4 apps, but hate plasma.
simcop2387but if you guys keep the other stuff alive i could see myself switching back.  at 3.6 i'm likely to give it a really serious chance.
kb9vqfgood to know
kb9vqfwhat do you like in kwin4 that we don't have?
simcop2387honestly it's been so long that i don't remember anymore, but i'm getting a debian vm setup to try trinity right now.  (qt3 and hal are the biggest blockers for me, qt3 i can manage but hal gets in the way for me anymore)
kb9vqfhal isn't that bad...
kb9vqfit just sits in the background
simcop2387it is when it's no longer supported by your dist and lots of packages in the package manager actively say they can't be installed if it is
Pikihal crashes a lot on my system
* kb9vqf notes that in the current nightly builds we have basic compositing support, and work is being done to make Trinity more compositing aware
kb9vqfproblem is there is no good replacement for HAL
kb9vqfand writing one is going to take a while
Pikikpowersave constantly loses the battery because of hal
simcop2387at least for all of hal anyway.  there's udisks and upower for two small parts, nothing else that i know of
kb9vqfI personally would like to see the kernel/udev stuff settle down more before writing a new library for it
kb9vqfafter all the upheval lately I don't trust udisks/upower to stay around in any semblance of a stable API for a while
* kb9vqf just cannot type
kb9vqfAlso, I provide HAL for debian in the package archives
kb9vqfit is bad packaging to conflict with it
kb9vqfhal-trinity IIRC
simcop2387my main dist isn't debian
kb9vqfor something else :)
kb9vqfah, ok
Pikikb9vqf: i think bero had something other than hal working with kde3 back in 2008 and older, i know it wasn't udev/udisks/upower, you can ask him about it
kb9vqfanother obsolete API probably
kb9vqfI really would like to wait and let things settle
Pikimaybe, but it worked
kb9vqfso does HAL ;-)
Pikinot for me
Pikiit's always crashing here
kb9vqfFor the record, I would like to see it replaced as well
kb9vqfbut I have yet to see an actual viable alternative
Pikiwhat bero used sometimes forgot to unload my flash drive drivers, but it worked perfectly otherwise
kb9vqfit would cost serious man-hours (read: $$$$) to produce a HAL replacement for Trinity at this point
kb9vqfit involves some serious low level programming
kb9vqfhave you seen the APIs for udev?
kb9vqfnasty stuff there
Pikii don't even know how to program, so i couldn't look
kb9vqfLike I said, I wish I could just replace HAL, but it is not trivial to do so
Pikiif something viable does come along, i'd be willing to test
Pikibut it would be awhile before i could develop for it
kb9vqfand by the time I do, the upstream devs will probably come out with a new latest-and-greatest interface to replace the current upower one
kb9vqfthat's my main concern
Pikiat this point i wouldn't know where to start, but i'll start learning soon
simcop2387from what i remember on the hal dev lists, it's biggest problem was that they had some architectural issues (i remember huge discussions every couple of months about if it should do mounting itself and how) and it being difficult to get any significant change into the presentation to things using it
kb9vqfyes, and those are the same characteristics that made it easy to use on the app level
kb9vqfthe HAL code in Trinity is minimal
kb9vqfwhen you start talking about using udev directly, the code will bloat like crazy
Pikiand believe me when i say: if i get into a project that i want/need something, i do it well
kb9vqfneeding a new library, properly designed APIs, etc.
Pikianyways, i need to get going, early start tomorrow
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simcop2387yea i don't remember kde doing huge amounts with it, just waiting for disks and maybe some power management stuff (my hardware back then didn't do acpi correctly so i didn't get to see that)
kb9vqfvery hard to "just do that" with udev
kb9vqfyou need a full fledged interface library
kb9vqfwhich doesn't exist yet
simcop2387i also seem to remember hal before udev itself being a bit of black magic to get events from the kernel, which i think lead to some of the strange looking things in it later on
simcop2387moving targets suck :)
kb9vqfyes, and udev may not be able to fully replace HAL as a result
kb9vqfthere was talk about using devicekit
kb9vqfI just can't afford to do this unless someone wants to sponsor it
kb9vqfI did write a spec for the new library: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/KPowerAPI
kb9vqfpersonally I
kb9vqfpersonally I'd rather someone else implemented that library, but I can dream, can't I? :-)
simcop2387i may look into doing some of it, or sponsoring something since i've got a job finally.  all depends on my time
kb9vqfok, sounds good
kb9vqflet me know what you decide
kb9vqfwhen you decide it (no rush)
kb9vqffrom my perspective HAL isn't a major problem
simcop2387i wil admit if i do anything it will likely not be done fast, since i've not looked at the stuff it'd involve
kb9vqfoh and BTW we absorbed Qt3
kb9vqfwe are maintaining it
kb9vqfand providing packages for it
simcop2387yea i saw tghat
simcop2387fixed a few security issues with it too i think i read?
kb9vqfso essentially you can look at Trinity as just sitting on top of XLib and friends :)
kb9vqfqt3 is just a common shared toolkit between native Trinity apps
kb9vqfwe're also working on improving compatibility between our version of Qt3 and the "real" Qt4
kb9vqfQt3 is just so much faster than Qt4
simcop2387i mostly see qt4 as a move in a good direction for the future since it'd reduce maintence on yourself (in theory) and because qt4 will supposidly support other display systems (like wayland and i think some work on direct framebuffer stuff)
kb9vqfactually it makes our job 100x harder
kb9vqfQt4 is another stupid shifting target
kb9vqfit's slow
kb9vqfit's buggy
kb9vqfA lot of those irritating KDE4 bugs didn't come from KDE ;-)
kb9vqfThey came from underlying Qt4 problems
simcop2387i hadn't seen much issues with it myself, but then again i've not tried to make a DE in it :)
kb9vqfKDE e.V. tried and you got KDE4
kb9vqfthat should speak for itself :)
kb9vqfI wonder how Qt4/Qt5 will even perform under Wayland
kb9vqfThere is too much change right now in Linux; AFAIK a lot of companies are rightfully concerned about using Linux vs. more stable alternatives
simcop2387i played with it a bit but nothing serious, that was a while ago
kb9vqfhonestly Wayland must provide an X11 compat API in order for it to succeed
simcop2387wayland itself seemed to be faster on the open source drivers than Xorg was, which was a good thing, but it was way to slow at the time.
simcop2387it already has that
kb9vqfand we can always latch onto that :)
kb9vqfIf you want bling keep KDE4 and friends
simcop2387that's the whole reason someone made it
kb9vqfbling and productivity do not go together really
kb9vqfIMNSHO :)
simcop2387yea i've usually got 90% of it turned off, but things like yakuake do help :)
kb9vqftransparent Konsole windows and a handful of other enahcements :)
kb9vqfoh, and if you want to prove Qt4's inferiority for certain workloads, just try to access your KDE4 session via VNC/RDP/etc.
kb9vqfyou can't
kb9vqfnot in real time
kb9vqfmore like a bad slideshow
simcop2387which vnc server? with x11vnc it works fine for me, but i'm not 100% sure that counts
kb9vqfused to be quite bad
kb9vqfis that on a LAN?
kb9vqfover the Internet AFAIK you can forget it
kb9vqfmaybe they finally fixed that then
kb9vqfit took long enough
kb9vqfwell, we're just one alternative of many--pick and choose what you like :)
kb9vqfthe general UI of Trinity is not going to change
kb9vqfand I am not sure that a Qt4 port is even going to be usable
kb9vqflast I tried (which was a few months ago) it was horridly slow
kb9vqfthis was part of the reason we absorbed Qt3
kb9vqfif it isn't broken....
simcop2387makes me wonder if it's some oddity in opengl drivers, i've seen them do strange things with x11vnc before
kb9vqfanyway I need to go
simcop2387have a good night
kb9vqfyou too :)
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 506 filed by ogldelphi@mail.ru.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=506 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, Move kpdf from xpdf to libpoppler
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* strangelv worries. He relies rather heavily on kpdf
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* Xu_R wonders if kpdf will see any performance regression/improvement if moved to libpoppler
MutantTurkeyI think libpoppler is the answer :P
MutantTurkeywell only because it's easy to link to and we don't have to do any work on that actual library
Xu_Rthat does sound easy then.
MutantTurkeysame as with libwebkit vs khtml
MutantTurkeyif we use our outdated rendering, it won't continue to recive updates, unlike libpoppler which is continuing to get updates
MutantTurkeythat is how I see it
Xu_Rand that's probably a good idea...
MutantTurkeyand it has a qt wrapper already
MutantTurkeyi think kpdf currently just has the xpdf code directory copied into it and thats that
MutantTurkeyif I recall correctly
MutantTurkeybut xpdf is still updated also
MutantTurkeylast update was 8/16/11
MutantTurkeybut I don't think it's an ideal solution copying it in
Xu_RI'm not sure which is better in the end... :| and we don't know what breakage new versions might bring
MutantTurkeylibpoppler at least has a large following and an consistant API
MutantTurkeyxpdf is not a library. so it's not really the best thing to do.
MutantTurkeyXu_R: also sorry about saturday. there was a ton of flooding to do
MutantTurkeyto clean up
Xu_RMutantTurkey: np... nobody showed up anyway XD we're going to have to try this again soon.
Xu_RMutantTurkey: I have to finish up this packaging anyway. kb9vqf told me he considers my lack of RPM packages to test a blocker... so I've got to hurry ;P
MutantTurkeyyeah I consider that a major impediment
MutantTurkeyyeah I consider that a major impediment
MutantTurkeysomeone I saw mentioned that "it's only packaged for ubuntu and debian" which is a major turn off for other distros
MutantTurkeyso having mre support would be greate
MutantTurkeyincreases user base and legitness
MutantTurkeyXu_R: close any bugs though?
Xu_Rhaven't had the time to look at the bug list lately
Xu_Rbeen rushing to get stuff done in time for next week
Xu_R(school starting)
MutantTurkeyyeah me too...
MutantTurkeyI still havent gotten books or anything yet xD
MutantTurkeyI have tuesdays and thursdays off though
Xu_Rlast minute panic :P
MutantTurkeybut I work those days anyway...
Xu_Rwell, I have to run. got more stuff to do
MutantTurkeyokay bud
MutantTurkeySeriously ubuntu is pissing me off. Every release they become less standardized
MutantTurkeythey are leaving the FOSS ecosystem rapidly
MutantTurkeyfor example, Unity is the new interface. that's awesome! but it only compiles with ubuntu because they have 5000 zillion hacks and patches to make it work.
MutantTurkeytalk about pain in the arse.
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MutantTurkeyKingSphinx: you asked a question yesterday that went unanswered
MutantTurkeyyou left, and then I looked and knew the answer.
MutantTurkeydo you recall the question?
KingSphinxUm, no, I don't recall asking anything yesterday... most recent question I asked was whether or not TDE will have anything for GTK3 integration or not, and that was a few days ago.
MutantTurkeythat was it
MutantTurkeywhile GTK3 is out. It is likely to take a few years to get it off the ground.
MutantTurkeyGTK2 is so firmly implanted and so few applications use GTK3 at this point
MutantTurkeyso answer
MutantTurkeyis yes but not yet
KingSphinxAh, okay then
KingSphinxGuess it's a good thing that I'm thinking ahead, but yeah...
KingSphinxOh! I think I also asked whether updating to 11.10 would be the same as 10.10 -> 11.04, or if any additional steps would need to be taken (this is, of course, assuming there's no repos for Ocelot by that time)
KingSphinx*Trinity repos, should've been clearer
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MutantTurkeyKingSphinx: sorry I had a meeting
MutantTurkeyyou are always supposed to update to 10.10 -> 11.04 -> 11.10
MutantTurkeyI dont think you can skip over one
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KingSphinxI know, I meant when 11.10 comes out, assuming there's no Ocelot Trinity packages by that time, will upgrading to Ocelot from Natty leave 3.5.12 intact?
MutantTurkeyIt might not
MutantTurkeyUbuntu has been messing around with their paths. I am sure that timothy will provide packages for it though.
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: can you speak on this?
kb9vqf3.5.12?  not sure
MutantTurkeywhat about from HEAD?
kb9vqfnew packages will definitely be provided from HEAD
kb9vqfwe have natty builds from HEAD already, ocelot will be next
kb9vqfas a rule I don't build packages for Ubuntu until the first beta release
kb9vqfof Ubuntu that is
kb9vqfit costs a lot of $$$ to build packages unfortunately
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: ?
KingSphinxNot even open-source is free :/
kb9vqffree as in freedom, remember :)
MutantTurkeynot as in free beer.
MutantTurkeythough that is welcomed
kb9vqfconsider that there are over 300 *source* packages that comprise Trinity
KingSphinxThough, if I remember correctly, something was mentioned in the logs about OpenSUSE still having 3.5 developers?
kb9vqfa full rebuild, even on the build farm, can take a couple of days
MutantTurkeyKingSphinx: NOT DEVELOPERS.
MutantTurkeythey are maintainers.
MutantTurkeythey do no work whatsoever to develop it.
MutantTurkeythey are content with "leaving it as long as it builds"
kb9vqfMutantTurkey is correct
MutantTurkeywhich basically ensures that their kde3 branch is dry rotting away.
kb9vqfbit rotting ;-)
kb9vqfthey tend to use nasty distro-specific hacks to get around build failures
KingSphinxWow, that sucks.
kb9vqfbut that's all their users want right now
MutantTurkeyand they are jerks and troll our mailing list
KingSphinxStill sounds better than not being able to build at all though (*cough*Fedora*cough*)
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: Only one does that
kb9vqfbe very careful
MutantTurkeyyou are correct I apologize.
kb9vqfit's OK :)
KingSphinxHmm... will there ever be a point that TDE will move past the 3.5.x naming or is it "frozen" there?
kb9vqfit's frozen until the bugs in the bugtracker are under control
kb9vqf3.6 should be almost completely bug free
kb9vqfafter all that is one of our selling points--fast and stable
KingSphinxbecause you don't want another KDE 4.0 on your hands... ;)
kb9vqfwe're being somewhat careful about that :)
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kb9vqfwe have enterprise users that would be....unhappy if it crashed daily on a "stable" releaes
KingSphinxI'd imagine so...
MutantTurkeyunhappy to say the least
MutantTurkeyjust found out that my bandwidth on my vps isn't even capped
MutantTurkeyIf i run over they just charge me only $1 every 100GB
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tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 85 from kdemultimedia to ubuntu.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=85 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Kmix for KDE4 conflicts with kmix for KDE3
MutantTurkeykb9vqf: I am closing bug 106
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=106 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, UNCONFIRMED, Duplicated country choices on first run as user
MutantTurkeyI checked it, doesn't occur for me
MutantTurkeyor FIXED?
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 106 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=106 normal, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, Duplicated country choices on first run as user
kb9vqfthat's fine
MutantTurkeybug wrangler turkey
kb9vqfin the future WORKSFORME may be better (just FYI)
MutantTurkeybug 112
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=112 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, kubuntu-desktop-kde3 installs konsole from KDE4 instead of konsole-kde3
MutantTurkeyI think we can also close
MutantTurkeythis is from 2009. another person configrmed this does happen. and It doesn't happen for me.
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: You did install the KDE4 konsole before testing, right?
kb9vqfoh wait
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 112 from other (any) to ubuntu.
tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 112 from NEW to RESOLVED FIXED.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=112 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, RESOLVED FIXED, kubuntu-desktop-kde3 installs konsole from KDE4 instead of konsole-kde3
MutantTurkeyother way around
MutantTurkeyit would pull in konsole
MutantTurkeyfixed though
MutantTurkeyneptunia seemed to report alot of bugs.
kb9vqfthat's a good thing
kb9vqfhe was testing Trinity thoroughly
MutantTurkeybug 112 seems to be connected
MutantTurkeyto another bug 113
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=113 major, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, If konsole from KDE4 installed along KDE3 packages break out
MutantTurkeybasically, if Konsole(KDE4) was installed, you can't remove it because ksmserver-kd3 trys to rename /usr/bin/plasma
MutantTurkeymarked as fixed?
kb9vqfthat is due to a design defect in KDE4
MutantTurkeywe install to /opt/ now right?
kb9vqfit may not be fixed
MutantTurkeyI will check
kb9vqfit doesn't matter where Trinity is installed to
MutantTurkeyoh okay
kb9vqfbasically plasma is an ill behaved little brat and always tries to launch no matter what, execpt in a hand picked set of desktop environments
kb9vqf(gnome, xfce, etc.
MutantTurkeyso unless it is marked to not launch it will?
MutantTurkeyhow do you stop it?
kb9vqfthe only way I was able to fix thta was to redirect plasma to a wrapper script that checks for Trinity before launching the real plasma binary
MutantTurkeyokay I gotta catch the train.
kb9vqfthe bug is still valid; installation/deinstallation should not be affected by what is installed or not installed
MutantTurkeyhopefully a few bugs rounded up a day and marked off will help
kb9vqfbut I don't know if the bug is still present :)
kb9vqfyes it will
kb9vqfeventually though you will have to start actually *fixing* them :)
MutantTurkeyit wil make clearer which bugs are actually bugs...
MutantTurkeyI know :D
MutantTurkey<excuse about working system>
MutantTurkeystarted pulling from trinitydesktop.org also
MutantTurkeyI need to still setup that script to notify you tgoufg
MutantTurkeyokay I'm off. will be back a bit later :D
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tiduxare builds x86-only at this point?
tiduxI tried adding the repositories to my Sheevaplug running Debian Squeeze armel
tiduxbut APT couldn't find the armel repository
tiduxfor Trinity
kb9vqfI don't have arm builders online right now
kb9vqf(or even the ability to use them)
kb9vqfit's on a to-do list :)
tiduxsheevaplugs are cheap ($99 plus S+H new) and they run Squeeze great from an SDHC
tiduxpower's not all that great, so I figured Trinity would be a great way to get a decent desktop for VNC
tiduxas it is, I just use SSH or the serial port
kb9vqfTrinity + ARM would be a good mix IMHO :)
kb9vqfI just haven't had time to set up the (unfamiliar to me) ARM build ysstem
tiduxkb9vqf: eh, once you install Debian (which can be a headache depending on hardware) it's really no different than x86
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tiduxmost things "just work" for building from source
kb9vqfbut in my case I have no native ARM CPUs :)
kb9vqfso then there's an emulator involved somewhere
kb9vqfnot to mention the interface to my build system and release manager
tiduxjust use basic command-line tools wherever possible and you should be good
kb9vqfnot that it isn't doable, just that it might take a bit for me to get it all running properly
kb9vqfof course :)
tiduxthe nice thing about ARM hardware is you can just leave it on
tiduxmy sheevaplug draws ~6W
tiduxmy Roku box draws ~2W
tiduxswitch one 75-watt light bulb to a CFL and add five ARM servers to your LAN - you'll still come out ahead on power
kb9vqfof course they have almost no power available for things like compiling or heavy duty computation...
kb9vqfbut for embedded systems they are great
tiduxkb9vqf: bah, my Sheevaplug has a 1.2GHz CPU and 512MB RAM
kb9vqfyeah, and how long will it take you to compile the Linux kernel on that?
tiduxquicker than my old Athlon XP
kb9vqfbut still slower than my Opteron class systems
tiduxwell yeah
tiduxI hang out with people who still do software development on an 8088
kb9vqfif they made one with a DVI output or PCI slot it would make a great mythtv frontend
tiduxso relative to old DOS hardware it's lightspeed
tiduxyou don't want a Sheevaplug for MythTV
tiduxget a Trim Slice FitPC
tiduxcomes with Tegra 2 for a CPU/GPU SoC, and HDMI output
tiduxor DVI-D
tiduxI forget which
kb9vqf"GPU assisted video playback is not supported yet "
kb9vqfpersonally I prefer a thin client with a PCI/E slot
* tidux shrugs
tiduxa Tegra 2 is still pretty powerful
kb9vqfnot enough for HDTV though :)
tiduxau contraire
kb9vqfanyway, I am pulling this channel off topic
tiduxthe FitPC can do 1080p output
kb9vqfyou can play 1080p with a Tegra?
kb9vqfat 60Hz?
tidux^ detailed specs are there
kb9vqfok, cool
tiduxanyways, how's Qt4 compatibility going?
tiduxI'd love to see SMPlayer look native in Trinity
kb9vqfread the IRC archive :-P
tiduxwhere's that?
kb9vqftidux: Basically, Qt4 is a shifting target, it's slow, it's buggy, and it's a royal pain
kb9vqfnot sure it's worth the compat layer ATM
kb9vqfI am working on other ways to get the Trinity look+feel on Qt4 :)
kb9vqf(for native Qt4 apps that is)
kb9vqfIn some respects, using Qt4 is like asking for a modern native Windows C++ application to be rewritten with an old version of Visual Basic
tiduxyeah, I don't even use Qt4 apps anymore - the only things on my system that use it are smplayer and VirtualBox
tiduxand I stopped using VirtualBox in favor of KVM
tiduxAmarok 2.... WHY.
kb9vqfVirtualBox here is the only Qt4 app I use
kb9vqfBecuase people are stupid and can't figure out how to use a powerful app like Amarok 1.4?
tiduxone question: will Trinity support other window managers?
kb9vqffor example?
tiduxI'm one of the 15 or so Window Maker geeks left on the planet
tiduxand I found a KDE3-lookalike theme
tiduxand a systray dockapp
kb9vqfwell, it is fully NET compliant
kb9vqfso you should be able to use any WM you want
tiduxheh nice
kb9vqfFor example I know the compiz WM works
kb9vqfjust be sure to run it with the --replace option, to replace kwin
kb9vqfor similar (WM may have a different name for the equivalent option)
kb9vqfanyway, I need to get going
kb9vqfhopefully I will have time to look into ARM builds this year
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KingSphinxI made a Kubuntu Hardy live CD just for kicks earlier... it's nice, but it really serves as a point as to how far Linux as a whole has come in just three years...
MutantTurkeyhas it come far?
KingSphinxQuite far, actually. Seems that while it did recognize my wireless card needed drivers, my display wouldn't go past 800x600 (it's 1280x1024 native)
MutantTurkeyour autodetect is getting more magical
KingSphinxNot to mention it felt a bit sluggish even for being on a CD
MutantTurkeyI think the ecosystem is only getting slower though :|
KingSphinxTrinity or Linux in general?
KingSphinxThough one notable difference between Hardy and Kubuntu/Trinity is that Hardy included Dolphin as the default file browser... I honestly didn't know there even was a version of Dolphin for KDE3 O_o
MutantTurkeytrinity remains fast
KingSphinxWell, it can't be blazing-fast all the time... no matter how much we all wish it could be, the ecosystem has to slow down sometimes. Don't give up hope though, the Linux community will speed up again soon.
KingSphinxHeck, we just had GNOME 3 not too long ago
KingSphinxKeep in mind that the last time we had a real "new" GNOME was ten years ago...
KingSphinxI think the next time we'll see a major pickup in the community is when KDE 5 is released. Even though I love Trinity, I'm honestly excited to see what KDE 5 will bring.
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Qu4ZI'm hoping KDE5 will be cool, but KDE seems to have moved to inhabit the slot that Gnome used to serve, with Gnome moving off into tabled territory
KingSphinxAnd I think that Trinity could serve as a decent alternative for users spurned away by GNOME's radical shift
KingSphinxEasy on resources, stable, offers good integration (not perfect, but eh) with GTK2 apps...
* KingSphinx feels like a salesperson in an infomercial... >_>;
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Qu4ZI think Trinity could offer a decent alternative for any users :)
Qu4Z... except users of Trinity, of course. That wouldn't make sense
Qu4ZAnd probably tiling window managers. They're too cool for us
KingSphinxI never quite understood tiling window managers. I mean, why go backwards in time technology-wise? (...yes, I realize I'm saying this while using what's technically an "outdated" DE)
KingSphinxWasn't Windows 1.0 the only version to do tiling?
Qu4ZWell, some people even type source code into a text editor instead of dragging and connecting components like has been possible for years. There's no accounting for taste, I guess.
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tbottu10New TDE 3.5 bug 507 filed by m.f.janfranke@web.de.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, root-pw not accepted in [Alt]+[F2]
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KingSphinxWhee, earthquakes.
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Qu4ZAnyone knowledgable around? I'm trying to build trinity on gentoo (there's no overlay or anything yet, as far as I know).
Qu4ZI assume it has to be built against qt3, and the qt3support from qt4 doesn't cut it (or at least the patch doesn't apply)
Qu4Z=> is there a pre-patched qt3 tarball around for download somewhere?
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calvinQu4Z: ?
calvinyou need to build our qt3
calvinwhich is in our git repository
calvin(sorry everyone is sleeping)
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MutantTu1keyfinally emptied my inbox of 4000 messages...
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MutantTu1keykb9vqf: where are the channel logs?
MutantTu1keyalso, I see you've been doing krandr work, anything worth mentioning?
kb9vqfyes, some cool stuff is now available
kb9vqfscreenshots forthcoming after builds are finished
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KingSphinxAssuming the work on porting Qt3 to TQt is complete, do you think that TDE could be added to Ubuntu's official repos anytime soon? Or do they not want such an "outdated" desktop?
MutantTu1key[Cit is
MutantTu1keyKingSphinx: I think there will be a greater chance once we release and have a larger following
MutantTu1keyI mean, repo's work on demand. if people want a program, its more likely to end up in the offical repos
KingSphinxSo it's just a "wait-and-see" thing?
MutantTu1keyfrankly I would rather stay seperate, because that wayyou have more control
MutantTu1keyTim was the kubuntu packager for some time so he is  more familiar with it than I am though
* KingSphinx is busy fixing some "broken" KDM themes
MutantTu1keyfor kde3?
KingSphinxYep, the Kubuntu O2 theme points to a non-existant wallpaper, so I just had to edit kubuntu.xml to point to the right wallpaper
KingSphinxNot that hard, really.
MutantTu1keysend that off to timothy
KingSphinxThough I have yet to see if it actually worked or not... >_>;
KingSphinxMight as well see if it did, brb
MutantTu1keywell if it works, send it off to the ML.
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KingSphinxIt worked!
KingSphinxNow I just have to see if the userlist variant has this same problem
MutantTu1keygood stuff
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tbottu10mutantturkey@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 507 from other (any) to kdebase.
tbottu04Bug http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=507 enhancement, P5, ---, kb9vqf, NEW, root-pw not accepted in [Alt]+[F2]
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MutantTu1keyconnection problems?
KingSphinxNo, just have to log out to see if my fix worked. Also, the userlist variant is bug-free since it points to the default KDM background.
* KingSphinx actually feels useful for once, even if it was a minor bug :D
kb9vqfMutantTurkey: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/secret_whispers_0f_a_n3w_p0w3r.png
KingSphinx:o A new KRandR?
kb9vqfA better one
kb9vqfit's not a replacement for the tray icon
kb9vqfthis one configures the entire system from KDM startup onwards
kb9vqfit supports extended, not just cloned, desktops
kb9vqfand it can apply the settings on the fly :)
MutantTu1keythats awesome
kb9vqfI think this puts us on the forefront of usability...no more Xorg files :))
MutantTu1keyI mean that is a seriously awesome improvement.
kb9vqfIIRC KDE4 can't do that either
kb9vqfor gnome
kb9vqfespecially not the arbitrary monitor config
KingSphinxI was just about to ask that
MutantTu1keygnome has a terrible montor config.
KingSphinxEspecially now with GNOME 3
MutantTu1keygood randr support is important to alot of users.
* KingSphinx speaks from experience
MutantTu1keyespecially power users.
kb9vqfWhen I was testing this I was just having fun dragging my secondary monitor wherever I wanted it :)
kb9vqfup, down, side to side...
MutantTu1keykb9vqf: can you switch primary monitors?
kb9vqfsee the primary monitor checkbbox?
KingSphinxI mean, I don't have dual-monitors (desk is way too small), but this is still awesome to have.
MutantTu1keykb9vqf: haven't checked yet.
kb9vqfI meant in the screenshot
MutantTu1keyoh i see the link now
KingSphinxAnd yet more proof that "old" KDE is FAR from dead.
MutantTu1keysecret whispers of a new power....
MutantTu1keyin the screenshot I am only seeing one monitor
kb9vqfthat's because I only had one connected when I took it :-P
MutantTu1keyoh okay
kb9vqfmore monitors show up, trust me :)
MutantTu1keyI have a buddy like in the cubicle next to me using kde4.
MutantTu1keyI am going to ask him about his randr setup ina minute
KingSphinxThis is planned for the 3.5.13 release?
kb9vqfit's in SVN and active
MutantTu1keyKingSphinx:... it is live.